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一天 (00:00-23:59) 請只開一個話題,請大家合作,謝謝。12/17/2017 13:54:57
 

外獨會意見交流

 

世界上只有一個

發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:09:21 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Dominican 多明尼加

而世界上也只有一個:

Dominica 多明尼克

它們那麼像, 而且還長在隔壁不遠處

一不小心還會搞錯

Record ID: 1512198561   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    15:11:42 (IP code: X.X.8.76)

Record ID: 1512198561R001   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:15:00 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Saudi Arabia 沙烏地阿拉伯

United Arab Emirates 阿拉伯聯合大公國
都在阿拉伯半島上

還有
Syrian Arab Republic 敍利亞阿拉伯共和國

Arab Republic of Egypt 埃及阿拉伯共和國

全都有阿拉的祝福!

Record ID: 1512198561R002   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    15:16:11 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


世界上只有一個中國,
台灣不是中國的一部份!


Record ID: 1512198561R003   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:19:57 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Russia 露西亞(俄羅斯)

White Russia 白露西亞(白俄羅斯)

加了一個白, 很接近, 但還是不同的國家

雖然它們有恩怨情仇

Record ID: 1512198561R004   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    15:21:11 (IP code: X.X.8.76)

Record ID: 1512198561R005   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:27:37 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Niger 尼日

Nigeria 奈及利亞

英文長得很像, 而且就長在隔壁

Record ID: 1512198561R006   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:討海人, on Dec/02/2017    15:28:45 (IP code: X.X.250.64)
淵文阿兄安~

奥地利&澳大利亞這2国的英文名我老是説不清!

Record ID: 1512198561R007   From: 美國

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:34:20 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
中國的英文不叫ZhongGuo

從前自稱被稱為支那

後來也接受自稱支那

但是現在被叫支那却很不高興

可是英文發音還是China, Sina, Cina

Record ID: 1512198561R008   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:39:03 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
討海人前輩,

您怎麼知道我正要寫

Australia 澳大利亞

Austria 奧地利

舌頭唸到快打結, 幸好兩個一個在東, 一個在西

Record ID: 1512198561R009   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:50:35 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
USA Taiwan 前輩,

看起來好像似乎在某些場合: 中國人民共和國國旗和中華民國國旗可以在不在中國的土地上被中國隊員所容忍和並存


然而最近6個人拿著幾面圖博雪山獅子旗就以1:0 的成績讓中國足球隊在德國被打敗

Record ID: 1512198561R010   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:55:54 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Guinea 幾內亞

Guinea-Bissau 幾內亞比索

也是相鄰而居

没查地圖, 還真不知道原來字比較多的, 國土比較小

Record ID: 1512198561R011   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:59:07 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
忘了還有一個: 巴布亞新幾內亞Papua New Guinea

另一個叫: 赤道幾內亞Guinea Ecuatorial

他們相差可很遠, 一個在亞洲, 另一個在非洲

Record ID: 1512198561R012   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    16:01:08 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
原來要辨識些世界上只有一個的時候

還要做一些功課

才能分辦清楚

Record ID: 1512198561R013   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    16:10:41 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
>回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017 15:16:11 (IP code: X.X.8.76)

>世界上只有一個中國,
>台灣不是中國的一部份!


>Record ID: 1512198561R003 From: 加拿大
=======================================================================
判例很多, 分享一例:

China ceded Formosa to Japan in 1895.
Following World War II, Japan surrendered all claims of sovereignty over Formosa.
But in the view of our State Department,
no agreement has "purported to transfer the sovereignty of Formosa to China.
中國已在1895年割給了日本
2次大戰後, 日本已放棄對台灣的所有主權要求
然而從美國政府觀點看,
  並無協議把台灣的主權轉給中國

Record ID: 1512198561R014   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    17:33:05 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
>2次大戰後, 日本已放棄對台灣的所有主權要求

ROC不是舊金山和約的締約國,放不放棄和台灣無關,對PRC也是。

至於根據

舊金山和約
第 2 條 【領土放棄】
(b).日本放棄對台灣、澎湖等島嶼的一切權利、權利名義與要求。
(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.

簽訂的台北和約也在1972.9.29,由東京對台北廢止。
算來已經45個年頭,而台灣人依然被蒙在鼓裡。

台灣是根據開羅宣言1945.10.25以替盟軍受降日本名義歸還ROC。

沒有美國託管這回事,如果有,1994.11.1已停止運作的聯合國託管理事會會有紀錄(正因已停止運作,所以紀錄都在,可鍵入字串查找)。

如果ROC是竄逃到美國未合併領土的流亡政府,則其選民在中國,台灣人將無資格普選ROC總統。
至於不要ROC,就是改國號,會造成所謂盟國的困擾,也許以後再說,畢竟順應歷史沿革自然就是美。

Record ID: 1512198561R015   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:00:13 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


台灣根本不是中華人民共和國(中華民國)的領土!

賣國賊狗[幹]他是反美仇日親中的賣國賊!

如果你不相信,你可以問問外獨版所有正直的台派網友.
證人真的太多了!
灨林老師,笑五毛,NorthStar,SuperDoc,中間選民, 六次,淵文,中笑, 李桑, - - - - - -


Record ID: 1512198561R016   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:01:43 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


只要任何人能夠證明 [台灣不是中國的一部分],
賣國賊狗幹就會馬上跳出來捍衛支那對台灣的主權.
笑~~~


Record ID: 1512198561R017   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:03:10 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


賣國賊狗幹, 繼續凹!

外獨正直的台灣網友沒有人相信你說的話!
你繼續貼 100, 1000, 10000 貼文都沒有任何鳥用!

因為你在外獨的信用已經完全破產!


Record ID: 1512198561R018   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:08:34 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
>中國已在1895年割給了日本

1941.12.9對日宣戰,廢止中日之間所有條約,也包括馬關條約。

最主要還是1945.9.2降伏文書承諾的

波茨坦公告
(八)開羅宣言之條件必將實施,而日本之主權必將限於本州、北海道、九州、四國及吾人所決定其他小島之內。
8. The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine.

不管之前怎樣,1945.9.2起,都無關了,包括釣魚台也是。

當然,歷史不停演進,以後怎樣又是一回事,但現在絕不能胡說八道。

把一些已經知道的歷史再提出來,斷章取義做出不一樣的解釋。

Record ID: 1512198561R019   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:16:03 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
>台灣根本不是中華人民共和國(中華民國)的領土!

表面上:台灣根本不是中華人民共和國的領土!

骨子裡:台灣根本不是中華民國的領土!

台灣是美國的領土?

今天以前,只要找得到舊金山和約第2條中可任意處分台灣主權的USMG,爺爺就撤下所有相關貼文。

否則你就把話收回去。

敢不敢?

Record ID: 1512198561R020   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:38:14 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


不要忘掉美國是二戰的最主要戰勝國,
沒有美國的戰勝日本,其他國家沒有可能戰勝日本,
因此美國一手安排舊金山和平條約簽字內容、簽字地點、分配好處,

設若美國是強盜頭子,其他小強盜難道可以不甩美國嗎?

當年中華民國對日本宣戰以後,是被日軍打著跑,節節敗退,
若非美軍兩顆原子彈,恐怕不知何年才能結束戰爭,
是「慘」勝 (根本是戰敗),
中國根本沒有資格和美國爭奪台灣佔領權。

中華民國只是同盟國之一員,但從來不是日本的「征服者」,
日本放棄對台澎的管轄權、統治權,是遵照舊金山和約,
和約明白規定台澎要交給美國,
中華民國並不是台澎的收受國,
只是被委託接受日軍投降而已。

一切美國說了算,兩岸被排除在舊金山和會之外,
自顧不暇,還有說三道四的餘地嗎?
還敢管到硫球群島、釣魚島?
幸好中國對日本不是事實戰勝國,否則沒完沒了。

共產黨不但不曾與日本正式交戰更未向日本宣戰,
還在國民黨背後扯後腿,壯大自己。

國際公認舊金山和約第廿三條,台灣由美國經管。

台灣主權有沒有脫离中國,那是你們中國人的口氣,
美國人只知依國際法理握住台灣就夠了,
一百年二百年三百年 …
中國想要台灣看看誰的拳頭大。


Record ID: 1512198561R021   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:41:44 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


2014年6月9日中國常駐聯合國代表團,
對於1958年9月4日中國政府發表聲明:

台灣及澎湖地區現在仍被美國武力侵占,
這是侵犯中華人民共和國領土完整的和主權的非法行為。

此一立場未曾改變,邏輯思考上是這樣無誤!!
因為引用為證據文件,並未修改,也未重新聲明新文件。
那就是1958年9月4日中國政府發表聲明,仍然有效!!
於2014年6月9日再度確認。




Record ID: 1512198561R022   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:中間選民, on Dec/02/2017    18:44:34 (IP code: X.X.213.233)
草泥馬,誰叫升五星的?

Record ID: 1512198561R023   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:44:37 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
>和約明白規定台澎要交給美國

哪一條?

Record ID: 1512198561R024   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:46:36 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!
活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!
活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!

哇哈哈哈!
哇哈哈哈!
哇哈哈哈!




Record ID: 1512198561R025   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:USA Taiwan, on Dec/02/2017    18:51:51 (IP code: X.X.8.76)


賣國賊狗[幹]:

你的共產黨爸爸的立場就是:
台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占

***聯合國檔案文件:
中國全權代表王民聲明全文17頁與中國政府的領海聲明(請參見第九頁末段):
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/68/907&referer=/english/&Lang=C


台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占
台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占
台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占
台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占

台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占



活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!
活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!
活活氣死賣國賊狗[幹]!

哇哈哈哈!
哇哈哈哈!
哇哈哈哈!

Record ID: 1512198561R026   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:53:05 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
>台灣和澎湖地區現在仍然被美國武力侵占

是哪一支部隊?

Record ID: 1512198561R027   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:56:38 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
補充027

是哪一位指揮官?

比如,佔領日本是麥克阿瑟,占領台灣是?

Record ID: 1512198561R028   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    18:58:24 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
現任的就好。

Record ID: 1512198561R029   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:00:34 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
要不要問TZ?

Record ID: 1512198561R030   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:04:15 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
林將軍?


Record ID: 1512198561R031   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:11:55 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
023,出身軍人世家,有留英碩士學歷。

請問:知道目前佔領台灣、澎湖的美軍指揮官是誰,以及部隊番號?

Record ID: 1512198561R032   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:14:39 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
要不要「關鍵時刻」來個真的假的?

Record ID: 1512198561R033   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:19:20 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
要不要開版問一下?

目前佔領台灣、澎湖的美軍指揮官是誰,以及部隊番號。

Record ID: 1512198561R034   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:26:10 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
像這樣「請問一下,目前佔領台灣、澎湖的美軍指揮官是誰,以及部隊番號;有什麼功德呢?又為什麼呢?」OK嗎?

Record ID: 1512198561R035   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    19:30:32 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
更正:

改成「請問一下,目前佔領台灣、澎湖的美軍指揮官是誰,以及部隊番號呢?有什麼功德呢?為什麼呢?」OK嗎?



別躲著裝孫子,爺爺真的會開版。

Record ID: 1512198561R036   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    21:21:30 (IP code: X.X.200.89)
怪怪的

怎麼談到舊金山和約去了呢?

日文及英文對照版

Record ID: 1512198561R037   From: 美國

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    21:27:07 (IP code: X.X.200.89)
存放在聯合國的舊金山和約版本, 含簽名字樣

Record ID: 1512198561R038   From: 美國

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    21:39:16 (IP code: X.X.200.89)
Whereas the Allied Powers and Japan are resolved that henceforth their
relations shall be those of nations which, as sovereign equals, cooperate in friendly
association to promote their common welfare and to maintain international peace
and security, and are therefore desirous of concluding a Treaty of Peace which
will settle questions still outstanding as a result of the existence of a state of war
between them ;

Whereas Japan for its part declares its intention to apply for membership
: in the United Nations and in all circumstances to conform to the principles of the
Charter of the United Nations ; to strive to realize the objectives of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights ; to seek to create within Japan conditions of
stability and well-being as defined in Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter of the United
Nations and already initiated by post-surrender Japanese legislation ;/and in
""public and private trade and commerce to conform to internationally accepted fair practices ;
Whereas the Allied Powers welcome the intentions of Japan set out in the foregoing paragraph ;
The Allied Powers and Japan have therefore determined to conclude the
present Treaty of Peace, and have accordingly appointed the undersigned Pleni
potentiaries, who, after presentation of their full powers, found in good and due
form, have agreed on the following provisions :

和約的開頭正式陳明簽約方的意志與決定

Record ID: 1512198561R039   From: 美國

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    21:50:07 (IP code: X.X.200.89)
CHAPTER I
PEACE
Article 1
(a) The state of war between Japan and each of the Allied Powers is terminated
as from the date on which the present Treaty comes into force between Japan and
the Allied Power concerned as provided for in Article 23.
(b) The Allied Powers recognize the full sovereignty of the Japanese people
over Japan and its territorial waters.

第一章第1條就寫到第23條

所以第23條要拿出來看一看:
CHAPTER VII
FINAL CLAUSES
Article 23
(a) The present Treaty shall be ratified by the States which sign it, including
Japan, and will come into force for all the States which have then ratified it, when
instruments of ratification have been deposited by Japan and by a majority,
including the United States of America as the principal occupying Power, of the
following States, namely Australia, Canada, Ceylon, France, Indonesia, the
Kingdom of the Netherlands, New Zealand, Pakistan, the Republic of the Philip
pines, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United
States of America. The present Treaty shall come into force for each State which
subsequently ratifies it, on the date of the deposit of its instrument of ratification.
(&) If the Treaty has not come into force within nine months after the date of
the deposit of Japan's ratification, any State which has ratified it may bring the
Treaty into force between itself and Japan by a notification to that effect given
to the Governments of Japan and the United States of America not later than
three years after the date of deposit of Japan's ratification.

原來第23條放在第七章

出現一些關鍵字including the United States of America as the principal occupying Power, of the
following States

當然生效日也很重要

Record ID: 1512198561R040   From: 美國

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    22:02:16 (IP code: X.X.219.189)
CHAPTER II
TERRITORY
Article 2
(a) Japan, recognizing the independence of Korea, renounces all right, title
and claim to Korea, including the islands of Quelpart, Port Hamilton and Dagelet.
(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.
(c) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands, and to
that portion of Sakhalin and the islands adjacent to it over which Japan acquired
sovereignty as a consequence of the Treaty of Portsmouth of September 5, 1905. 1
(d) Japan renounces all right, title and claim in connection with the League
of Nations Mandate System, and accepts the action of the United Nations Security
Council of April 2, 1947, extending the trusteeship system to the Pacific Islands
formerly under mandate to Japan. 1
(e) Japan renounces all claim to any right or title to or interest in connection
with any part of the Antarctic area, whether deriving from the activities of Japanese
nationals or otherwise.
(/) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Spratly Islands and to
the Paracel Islands.

第二章第2條出現一個註解參考了一份文件
1 De Martens : Nouveau Recueil général de Traités, deuxi me s rie, tome XXXIII, p. 3.
No. 1832

當然和台灣有關的是這一句, 當然別忘了第1條提到的第23條

Record ID: 1512198561R041   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    22:12:08 (IP code: X.X.219.189)
Article 3
Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations
to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole ad
ministering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 north latitude (including the
Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands), Nanpo Shoto south of Sofu Gan (including
the Bonin Islands, Rosario Island and the Volcano Islands) and Parece Vela and
Marcus Island. Pending the making of such a proposal and affirmative action
thereon, the United States will have the right to exercise all and any powers of
administration, legislation and jurisdiction over the territory and inhabitants of
these islands, including their territorial waters.

Article 4
(a) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (V) of this Article, the disposition
of property of Japan and of its nationals in the areas referred to in Article 2, and
their claims, including debts, against the authorities presently administering
such areas and the residents (including juridical persons) thereof, and the disposi
tion in Japan of property of such authorities and residents, and of claims, including
; debts, of such authorities and residents against. Japan and its nationals, shall be
| the subject of special arrangements between Japan and such authorities. The
property of any of the Allied Powers or its nationals in the areas referred to in
Article 2 shall, in so far as this has not already been done, be returned by the ad
ministering authority in the condition in which it now exists. (The term nationals
whenever used in the present Treaty includes juridical persons.)
(b) Japan recognizes the validity of dispositions of property of Japan and
Japanese nationals made by or pursuant to directives of the United States Military
Government in any of the areas referred to in Articles 2 and 3.
(c) Japanese-owned submarine cables connecting Japan with territory
removed from Japanese control pursuant to the present Treaty shall be equally
divided, Japan retaining the Japanese terminal and adjoining half of the cable,
and the detached territory the remainder of the cable and connecting terminal
lacilities.

又出現一個註解:
1 United Nations, Treaty Series, Vol. 8, p. 189.

而第4條表示:Subject to the provisions of paragraph (V) of this Article

和The property of any of the Allied Powers or its nationals in the areas referred to in
Article 2 shall, in so far as this has not already been done, be returned by the ad
ministering authority in the condition in which it now exists. (The term nationals
whenever used in the present Treaty includes juridical persons.)

和in any of the areas referred to in Articles 2 and 3.
再加上between Japan and the Allied Power concerned as provided for in Article 23.

使得內容包含非常豐富

Record ID: 1512198561R042   From: 日本

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    22:12:12 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
1972.9.29東京廢止台北和約後,舊金山和約與台灣已經沒有任何關係了。

Record ID: 1512198561R043   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    22:19:57 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
042,

>使得內容包含非常豐富

無關就是無關,讚嘆和約也沒用。

就算倒過來背個幾遍還是一樣。

Record ID: 1512198561R044   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    22:38:11 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
要是找得出1972.9.29之後,舊金山和約還有哪些條款和台灣有關,爺爺就把所有相關貼文都撤下來。

Record ID: 1512198561R045   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    23:39:26 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
Article 6
(a) All occupation forces of the Allied Powers shall be withdrawn from Japan
as soon as possible after the coming into force of the present Treaty, and in any
case not later than 90 days thereafter. Nothing in this provision shall, however,
prevent the stationing or retention of foreign armed forces in Japanese territory
under or in consequence of any bilateral or multilateral agreements which have
been or may be made between one or more of the Allied Powers, on the one hand,
and Japan on the other.
(b) The provisions of Article 9 of the Potsdam Proclamation of July 26, 1945,
dealing with the return of Japanese military forces to their homes, to the extent
not already completed, will be carried out.
(c) All Japanese property for which compensation has not already been paid,
which was supplied for the use of the occupation forces and which remains in the
possession of those forces at the time of the coming into force of the present Treaty,
shall be returned to the Japanese Government within the same 90 days unless
other arrangements are made by mutual agreement.

這條也很重要.

Record ID: 1512198561R046   From: 日本

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    23:42:38 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
和台灣無關,怎樣重要?

Record ID: 1512198561R047   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    23:50:28 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
台北和約

第二條 茲承認依照公曆一千九百五十一年九月八日在美利堅合眾國金山市簽訂之對日和平條約 (以下簡稱金山和約) 第二條,日本國業已放棄對於臺灣及澎湖群島以及南沙群島及西沙群島之一切權利、權利名義與要求。

承認「日本國業已放棄對於臺灣及澎湖群島以及南沙群島及西沙群島之一切權利、權利名義與要求。」有卵用?

根本有跟沒有都一樣。

Record ID: 1512198561R048   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    23:57:07 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
所以咧

合約是要整個來看的

連註解也要看

還有要以英文為主

簽約對象

另外, 這些英文用的語句, 是由具深厚的美國法律人士所擬定

是以, 仍要看法學人士理解和解釋為準

總不能望文而自己解釋

Record ID: 1512198561R049   From: 日本

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:00:47 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
不是這樣講,ROC不是SFPT的締約國,且台北和約也廢止,當然無關。

包括怎樣解釋,又干屁事?

Record ID: 1512198561R050   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:05:14 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
爺爺要睡了,還是有什麼意見,本人可以奉陪。

Record ID: 1512198561R051   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:10:04 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
不甘心?

一開始被誤導,後面就全錯。

1972迄今已45年,居然沒有發現早已經無關,實在講不過去。

Record ID: 1512198561R052   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:14:48 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
如果不是故意,就是很聳(台語ㄙㄨㄥˊ;沒智識)。

好好沉澱心情吧,爺爺睡了。

Record ID: 1512198561R053   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    10:46:39 (IP code: X.X.120.22)
當然啦



舊金山和約簽約對象主要是日本和UN的當時大部份會員

其條文當然有玄機

因為日本在舊金山和約時已把台灣的all right, title, 和Claim都給 renounces all right, title and claim(簡單地說台灣在甲午戰爭後被大清帝國割讓給日本,日本在2次大戰後再把台灣割讓出去)

舊金山和約簽約對象就是沒有中華民國, 和中華人民共和國

也就是没有割讓給上面兩個

在中國的中華民國蔣介石管理當局在2次大戰後被美國的麥克阿瑟將軍以第1號命令派來台灣代表盟軍接受日本的投降

最後在中國的中華民國在中國被消滅了,死亡了,朝代結束了

朝代結束前舊金山和約也還没簽,所以咧,雖然當時中國的中華民國管理當局哈死了台灣,也没拿到手,嗚呼哀哉,尚饕

在台灣的蔣介石帶著一群人員烤貝複制了一個仿冒的中華民國制度的政治制度,並且對外宣稱叫做中華民國

可是也没經過台灣人的選票洗禮而自命為台灣管理當局的總統,尤其也没和主要的舊金山和約簽約國簽定解決台灣的合約

是以,蔣氏父子兩人,是專政政權

1996年台灣經過直選產生民主洗禮的台灣總統
1992年台灣經過民主洗禮產生台灣的民意代表

可是到如今也還得跟舊金山主要簽約國面報及徵得重要的Status改變同意

換言之

台灣要成立具有國際國格法人地位的國家主權權利行使,要民選的台灣管理當局跟舊金山主要簽約國

經由某種的過程

才能拿到

這個過程包含

主要簽約國目前都叫台灣管理當局而不叫中華民國,其實可以理解台灣對外實在無法再用中華民國的可能主要原因

但是台灣的管理當局也面臨一個國內的困境,因為,要把中華民國這個名字做變更,困難度也很大

如果改名成:新中華民國(NROC),或全新中華民國(ANROC),或許在政治上的困難度會較有可能被主要政黨接受, 目前只能用中華民國在台灣, 台灣中華民國來自我安慰, 而未得到舊金山主要簽約國的同意

然而面對舊金山和約主要簽約國,這個Status上,要如何改變,都還在摸索中, 因為這是一個十分模糊的空間

似乎好像目前能改變這個Status的主要還是台灣人民的意志, 及管理當局要以這個意志和主要簽約國Lobby才能找到出路

因此台灣人民的意志是很重要的

目前能有效表達人民意志的方法也只有人民透過總統直選來表達這個意志

然而直接總統,還是無法100%表達台灣要成為一個獨立國家的直接清楚明白的表達

因此,仍要持續爭取能直接表達的方式

例如:民意調查時要明白表明
例如:要經常發出聲音來表明
例如:要駡一駡或抗議管理當局的不做為
例如:當台灣管理當局要與舊金山主要簽約國表明Status的獨立國格時,要充份支持這份爭取力道

如此才能漸漸取得改變Status

因為台灣管理當局最後還是要以民意為依歸, 而舊金山主要簽約國也是一個以民意為重的民主國家

是以, 這個難題看起來很不好解, 但民意的主流站在我們這一邊, 我們自然不能輕易的放棄, 當然還要拚命努力才行

Record ID: 1512198561R054   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:04:16 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
>1972.9.29東京廢止台北和約後,舊金山和約與台灣已經沒有任何關係了。

可以說和閩南清國奴匪幹沒啥關係, 因為PRC沒有繼承到ROC簽的約. 這是大日本+大美國高明之處.
(此舉, 指廢約, 依法後面必定有美國的主導, 不必懷疑. 呵呵.)

Record ID: 1512198561R055   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:06:24 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
匪幹只靠阿共 就想哄騙台灣人, 是不夠的.

Record ID: 1512198561R056   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:09:55 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
美國才是莊主. 呵呵.

所以不deal with 英語真的不行, 板友都這麼一說再說了.

匪幹不能讀懂英文, 真的只算是個[舊金山和約]的低端學者.

Record ID: 1512198561R057   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:29:59 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
054,就算沒有舊金山和約,

在第2條

南北韓照樣獨立。

台灣也是照樣歸還ROC。

蘇聯也照樣拿回庫頁島南部與千島群島。

在第3條

美國甚至也沒把琉球交給聯合國安排託管。

你到底是懂還是不懂?

Record ID: 1512198561R058   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:47:19 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
補充058,

因為,在日本先兌現降伏文書對波茨坦公告的承諾後,盟軍纔會簽定和約,以結束戰爭狀態。

不是戰勝國結束戰爭狀態,戰敗國纔要兌現承諾。

Record ID: 1512198561R059   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:52:02 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
055~7,不甘寂寞嗎?

來亂一下也好。

Record ID: 1512198561R060   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    13:39:29 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
>PRC沒有繼承到ROC簽的約. 這是大日本+大美國高明之處.
>(此舉, 指廢約, 依法後面必定有美國的主導, 不必懷疑. 呵呵.)

>美國才是莊主. 呵呵.

temo前輩,

您講得太白話, 又太淺顯易懂了^^

Record ID: 1512198561R061   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    13:57:00 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
Fri, Apr 10, 2009
The US Court of Appeals in Washington on Wednesday ruled
in favor of the US government in a lawsuit that argues
the US is Taiwan’s principal occupying power based on
the San Francisco Peace Treaty (SFPT) and enjoys sovereign
authority.

Reaffirming that the court does not deal with political
matters, the judges said the question was inconclusive.
“Addressing [the] Appellants’ claims would require
identification of Taiwan’s sovereign. The Executive Branch
has deliberately remained silent on this issue and we
cannot intrude on its decision,” the judges said.
“Therefore, as the district court correctly concluded,
consideration of Appellants’ claims is barred by
the political question doctrine.”

In December 2006, Roger Lin and other Taiwanese expatriates
took their case to US courts, arguing that Japan
relinquished control over Taiwan and Penghu after World War II
but did not return it to China.

The group asked the US court system to determine what rights
Taiwanese have based on the treaty and the US Constitution,
including whether they should be issued US passports.

Lin said the treaty did not address sovereignty over Taiwan
and Penghu, meaning the US was still the principal occupying power.

The lawsuit began at Washington’s district court, where
Judge Rosemary Collyer ruled in favor of the US government,
arguing that courts do not deal with political matters.

Despite the latest setback, Lin and former Judicial Yuan
vice president Cheng Chung-Mo, who is the representative
plaintiff, called the ruling encouraging.

“This is a breakthrough for the court to retain its ruling
on Taiwanese people’s status as stateless,” Cheng said.

The judgment said the people of Taiwan “have uncertain
status in the world community.”
“America and China’s tumultuous relationship over the past
sixty years has trapped the inhabitants of Taiwan in
political purgatory,” the judges said.
“During this time the people on Taiwan have lived without
any uniformly recognized government. In practical terms,
this means they have uncertain status in the world community
which infects the population’s day-to-day lives.”

But they added: “Determining Appellants’ nationality would
require us to trespass into a controversial area of U.S.
foreign policy in order to resolve a question the
Executive Branch intentionally left unanswered for over
sixty years: who exercises sovereignty over Taiwan.
This we cannot do.”

The “political question doctrine bars consideration of Appellants’ claims,”
the judges said.
“Appellants may even be correct; careful analysis of the
SFPT might lead us to conclude the United States has
temporary sovereignty. But we will never know, because
the political question doctrine forbids us from commencing
that analysis. We do not dictate to the Executive what
governments serve as the supreme political authorities of
foreign lands,” the ruling said.

The judges said that then-US president Jimmy Carter’s
switch of diplomatic recognition in 1979 from the
Republic of China to the People’s Republic of China
prompted the US’ Taiwan Relation Act, which lays out the
US’ “unofficial relationship with ‘the people of Taiwan.’”

Cheng said the group would appeal to the Supreme Court,
hoping the court could hold a public hearing on the case.

Cheng expressed optimism that the court would hear the case.

Lin said the status of 32 postwar occupied areas including
Guam, Puerto Rico and other places had been resolved by the
Supreme Court and he was confident about winning the case.

Record ID: 1512198561R062   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:00:41 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
“Appellants may even be correct; careful analysis of the
SFPT might lead us to conclude the United States has
temporary sovereignty. But we will never know, because
the political question doctrine forbids us from commencing
that analysis. We do not dictate to the Executive what
governments serve as the supreme political authorities of
foreign lands,” the ruling said.
==========================================================
上段簡單地說是
美國法官判決說: 法理推論雖然正確, 然而政治不是法理所能輕易解決.

Record ID: 1512198561R063   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:07:08 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
The judgment said the people of Taiwan “have uncertain
status in the world community.”
“America and China’s tumultuous relationship over the past
sixty years has trapped the inhabitants of Taiwan in
political purgatory,” the judges said.
“During this time the people on Taiwan have lived without
any uniformly recognized government. In practical terms,
this means they have uncertain status in the world community
which infects the population’s day-to-day lives.”
==================================================================
華盛頓法官 Rosemary Collyer 說:
“台灣人民在國際社會中地位不確定”生活, 造成困擾像是坐在政治的煉獄裏一樣

但是: 法院不處理政治問題。

Record ID: 1512198561R064   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:08:20 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
這是2009年的判案

一晃眼又過了8年

Record ID: 1512198561R065   From: 日本

本篇到此告一段落———版主

WE ARE 49ER TAIWANESE