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一天 (00:00-23:59) 請只開一個話題,請大家合作,謝謝。12/17/2017 14:14:15
 

外獨會意見交流

 

世界上只有一個

發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    15:09:21 (IP code: X.X.159.102)
Dominican 多明尼加

而世界上也只有一個:

Dominica 多明尼克

它們那麼像, 而且還長在隔壁不遠處

一不小心還會搞錯

Record ID: 1512198561   From: 台灣

回應貼文太多,中間略過,看全文請按這裡

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    23:39:26 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
Article 6
(a) All occupation forces of the Allied Powers shall be withdrawn from Japan
as soon as possible after the coming into force of the present Treaty, and in any
case not later than 90 days thereafter. Nothing in this provision shall, however,
prevent the stationing or retention of foreign armed forces in Japanese territory
under or in consequence of any bilateral or multilateral agreements which have
been or may be made between one or more of the Allied Powers, on the one hand,
and Japan on the other.
(b) The provisions of Article 9 of the Potsdam Proclamation of July 26, 1945,
dealing with the return of Japanese military forces to their homes, to the extent
not already completed, will be carried out.
(c) All Japanese property for which compensation has not already been paid,
which was supplied for the use of the occupation forces and which remains in the
possession of those forces at the time of the coming into force of the present Treaty,
shall be returned to the Japanese Government within the same 90 days unless
other arrangements are made by mutual agreement.

這條也很重要.

Record ID: 1512198561R046   From: 日本

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    23:42:38 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
和台灣無關,怎樣重要?

Record ID: 1512198561R047   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/02/2017    23:50:28 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
台北和約

第二條 茲承認依照公曆一千九百五十一年九月八日在美利堅合眾國金山市簽訂之對日和平條約 (以下簡稱金山和約) 第二條,日本國業已放棄對於臺灣及澎湖群島以及南沙群島及西沙群島之一切權利、權利名義與要求。

承認「日本國業已放棄對於臺灣及澎湖群島以及南沙群島及西沙群島之一切權利、權利名義與要求。」有卵用?

根本有跟沒有都一樣。

Record ID: 1512198561R048   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/02/2017    23:57:07 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
所以咧

合約是要整個來看的

連註解也要看

還有要以英文為主

簽約對象

另外, 這些英文用的語句, 是由具深厚的美國法律人士所擬定

是以, 仍要看法學人士理解和解釋為準

總不能望文而自己解釋

Record ID: 1512198561R049   From: 日本

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:00:47 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
不是這樣講,ROC不是SFPT的締約國,且台北和約也廢止,當然無關。

包括怎樣解釋,又干屁事?

Record ID: 1512198561R050   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:05:14 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
爺爺要睡了,還是有什麼意見,本人可以奉陪。

Record ID: 1512198561R051   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:10:04 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
不甘心?

一開始被誤導,後面就全錯。

1972迄今已45年,居然沒有發現早已經無關,實在講不過去。

Record ID: 1512198561R052   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    00:14:48 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
如果不是故意,就是很聳(台語ㄙㄨㄥˊ;沒智識)。

好好沉澱心情吧,爺爺睡了。

Record ID: 1512198561R053   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    10:46:39 (IP code: X.X.120.22)
當然啦



舊金山和約簽約對象主要是日本和UN的當時大部份會員

其條文當然有玄機

因為日本在舊金山和約時已把台灣的all right, title, 和Claim都給 renounces all right, title and claim(簡單地說台灣在甲午戰爭後被大清帝國割讓給日本,日本在2次大戰後再把台灣割讓出去)

舊金山和約簽約對象就是沒有中華民國, 和中華人民共和國

也就是没有割讓給上面兩個

在中國的中華民國蔣介石管理當局在2次大戰後被美國的麥克阿瑟將軍以第1號命令派來台灣代表盟軍接受日本的投降

最後在中國的中華民國在中國被消滅了,死亡了,朝代結束了

朝代結束前舊金山和約也還没簽,所以咧,雖然當時中國的中華民國管理當局哈死了台灣,也没拿到手,嗚呼哀哉,尚饕

在台灣的蔣介石帶著一群人員烤貝複制了一個仿冒的中華民國制度的政治制度,並且對外宣稱叫做中華民國

可是也没經過台灣人的選票洗禮而自命為台灣管理當局的總統,尤其也没和主要的舊金山和約簽約國簽定解決台灣的合約

是以,蔣氏父子兩人,是專政政權

1996年台灣經過直選產生民主洗禮的台灣總統
1992年台灣經過民主洗禮產生台灣的民意代表

可是到如今也還得跟舊金山主要簽約國面報及徵得重要的Status改變同意

換言之

台灣要成立具有國際國格法人地位的國家主權權利行使,要民選的台灣管理當局跟舊金山主要簽約國

經由某種的過程

才能拿到

這個過程包含

主要簽約國目前都叫台灣管理當局而不叫中華民國,其實可以理解台灣對外實在無法再用中華民國的可能主要原因

但是台灣的管理當局也面臨一個國內的困境,因為,要把中華民國這個名字做變更,困難度也很大

如果改名成:新中華民國(NROC),或全新中華民國(ANROC),或許在政治上的困難度會較有可能被主要政黨接受, 目前只能用中華民國在台灣, 台灣中華民國來自我安慰, 而未得到舊金山主要簽約國的同意

然而面對舊金山和約主要簽約國,這個Status上,要如何改變,都還在摸索中, 因為這是一個十分模糊的空間

似乎好像目前能改變這個Status的主要還是台灣人民的意志, 及管理當局要以這個意志和主要簽約國Lobby才能找到出路

因此台灣人民的意志是很重要的

目前能有效表達人民意志的方法也只有人民透過總統直選來表達這個意志

然而直接總統,還是無法100%表達台灣要成為一個獨立國家的直接清楚明白的表達

因此,仍要持續爭取能直接表達的方式

例如:民意調查時要明白表明
例如:要經常發出聲音來表明
例如:要駡一駡或抗議管理當局的不做為
例如:當台灣管理當局要與舊金山主要簽約國表明Status的獨立國格時,要充份支持這份爭取力道

如此才能漸漸取得改變Status

因為台灣管理當局最後還是要以民意為依歸, 而舊金山主要簽約國也是一個以民意為重的民主國家

是以, 這個難題看起來很不好解, 但民意的主流站在我們這一邊, 我們自然不能輕易的放棄, 當然還要拚命努力才行

Record ID: 1512198561R054   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:04:16 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
>1972.9.29東京廢止台北和約後,舊金山和約與台灣已經沒有任何關係了。

可以說和閩南清國奴匪幹沒啥關係, 因為PRC沒有繼承到ROC簽的約. 這是大日本+大美國高明之處.
(此舉, 指廢約, 依法後面必定有美國的主導, 不必懷疑. 呵呵.)

Record ID: 1512198561R055   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:06:24 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
匪幹只靠阿共 就想哄騙台灣人, 是不夠的.

Record ID: 1512198561R056   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Dec/03/2017    11:09:55 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
美國才是莊主. 呵呵.

所以不deal with 英語真的不行, 板友都這麼一說再說了.

匪幹不能讀懂英文, 真的只算是個[舊金山和約]的低端學者.

Record ID: 1512198561R057   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:29:59 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
054,就算沒有舊金山和約,

在第2條

南北韓照樣獨立。

台灣也是照樣歸還ROC。

蘇聯也照樣拿回庫頁島南部與千島群島。

在第3條

美國甚至也沒把琉球交給聯合國安排託管。

你到底是懂還是不懂?

Record ID: 1512198561R058   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:47:19 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
補充058,

因為,在日本先兌現降伏文書對波茨坦公告的承諾後,盟軍纔會簽定和約,以結束戰爭狀態。

不是戰勝國結束戰爭狀態,戰敗國纔要兌現承諾。

Record ID: 1512198561R059   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:, on Dec/03/2017    11:52:02 (IP code: X.X.51.93)
055~7,不甘寂寞嗎?

來亂一下也好。

Record ID: 1512198561R060   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    13:39:29 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
>PRC沒有繼承到ROC簽的約. 這是大日本+大美國高明之處.
>(此舉, 指廢約, 依法後面必定有美國的主導, 不必懷疑. 呵呵.)

>美國才是莊主. 呵呵.

temo前輩,

您講得太白話, 又太淺顯易懂了^^

Record ID: 1512198561R061   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    13:57:00 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
Fri, Apr 10, 2009
The US Court of Appeals in Washington on Wednesday ruled
in favor of the US government in a lawsuit that argues
the US is Taiwan’s principal occupying power based on
the San Francisco Peace Treaty (SFPT) and enjoys sovereign
authority.

Reaffirming that the court does not deal with political
matters, the judges said the question was inconclusive.
“Addressing [the] Appellants’ claims would require
identification of Taiwan’s sovereign. The Executive Branch
has deliberately remained silent on this issue and we
cannot intrude on its decision,” the judges said.
“Therefore, as the district court correctly concluded,
consideration of Appellants’ claims is barred by
the political question doctrine.”

In December 2006, Roger Lin and other Taiwanese expatriates
took their case to US courts, arguing that Japan
relinquished control over Taiwan and Penghu after World War II
but did not return it to China.

The group asked the US court system to determine what rights
Taiwanese have based on the treaty and the US Constitution,
including whether they should be issued US passports.

Lin said the treaty did not address sovereignty over Taiwan
and Penghu, meaning the US was still the principal occupying power.

The lawsuit began at Washington’s district court, where
Judge Rosemary Collyer ruled in favor of the US government,
arguing that courts do not deal with political matters.

Despite the latest setback, Lin and former Judicial Yuan
vice president Cheng Chung-Mo, who is the representative
plaintiff, called the ruling encouraging.

“This is a breakthrough for the court to retain its ruling
on Taiwanese people’s status as stateless,” Cheng said.

The judgment said the people of Taiwan “have uncertain
status in the world community.”
“America and China’s tumultuous relationship over the past
sixty years has trapped the inhabitants of Taiwan in
political purgatory,” the judges said.
“During this time the people on Taiwan have lived without
any uniformly recognized government. In practical terms,
this means they have uncertain status in the world community
which infects the population’s day-to-day lives.”

But they added: “Determining Appellants’ nationality would
require us to trespass into a controversial area of U.S.
foreign policy in order to resolve a question the
Executive Branch intentionally left unanswered for over
sixty years: who exercises sovereignty over Taiwan.
This we cannot do.”

The “political question doctrine bars consideration of Appellants’ claims,”
the judges said.
“Appellants may even be correct; careful analysis of the
SFPT might lead us to conclude the United States has
temporary sovereignty. But we will never know, because
the political question doctrine forbids us from commencing
that analysis. We do not dictate to the Executive what
governments serve as the supreme political authorities of
foreign lands,” the ruling said.

The judges said that then-US president Jimmy Carter’s
switch of diplomatic recognition in 1979 from the
Republic of China to the People’s Republic of China
prompted the US’ Taiwan Relation Act, which lays out the
US’ “unofficial relationship with ‘the people of Taiwan.’”

Cheng said the group would appeal to the Supreme Court,
hoping the court could hold a public hearing on the case.

Cheng expressed optimism that the court would hear the case.

Lin said the status of 32 postwar occupied areas including
Guam, Puerto Rico and other places had been resolved by the
Supreme Court and he was confident about winning the case.

Record ID: 1512198561R062   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:00:41 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
“Appellants may even be correct; careful analysis of the
SFPT might lead us to conclude the United States has
temporary sovereignty. But we will never know, because
the political question doctrine forbids us from commencing
that analysis. We do not dictate to the Executive what
governments serve as the supreme political authorities of
foreign lands,” the ruling said.
==========================================================
上段簡單地說是
美國法官判決說: 法理推論雖然正確, 然而政治不是法理所能輕易解決.

Record ID: 1512198561R063   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:07:08 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
The judgment said the people of Taiwan “have uncertain
status in the world community.”
“America and China’s tumultuous relationship over the past
sixty years has trapped the inhabitants of Taiwan in
political purgatory,” the judges said.
“During this time the people on Taiwan have lived without
any uniformly recognized government. In practical terms,
this means they have uncertain status in the world community
which infects the population’s day-to-day lives.”
==================================================================
華盛頓法官 Rosemary Collyer 說:
“台灣人民在國際社會中地位不確定”生活, 造成困擾像是坐在政治的煉獄裏一樣

但是: 法院不處理政治問題。

Record ID: 1512198561R064   From: 日本

回信 發言人:淵文, on Dec/03/2017    14:08:20 (IP code: X.X.7.140)
這是2009年的判案

一晃眼又過了8年

Record ID: 1512198561R065   From: 日本

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