貼圖、程式等,版主可任意修改或刪除,轉貼文章請多用連結,一天 (00:00-23:59) 請只開一個話題,請大家合作,謝謝。03/23/2019 20:27:30     意見庫存
 

外獨會意見交流

 

習近平講話 與 蔡總統的回應 雛論

發言人:Simon, on Jan/11/2019    10:01:21 (IP code: X.X.156.235)
 
習近平講話全文 3700字,

蔡總統 1000字

文字多寡不足以論斷好壞, 但是,

具體內容 習近平講了什麼, 顯現中國什麼樣的思維跟步驟意圖?
蔡英文總統如何 闡述台灣立場,又駁斥 或拒絕中國什麼圖謀?

「九二共識就是 一國兩制」明修棧道,
暗渡陳倉 具體的路子, 在習近平講話中可還真不少, 卻沒見到蔡總統有明確的反駁,
執政以來的施政諸多方面,也沒有防止習近平講話說出的圖謀。
 

Record ID: 1547172081   From: 台灣

回應貼文太多,中間略過,看全文請按這裡

回信 發言人:ace, on Jan/11/2019    11:17:43 (IP code: X.X.229.47)
 
西班牙及荷蘭曾試植民台灣未逐、但彼在絶望中放棄 清國人事實上居殘荒野、又、十分容易取得台灣的佛國及英國、選出不踏足於野蠻之島的內陸部
The Spanish and the Dutch made attempts at colonizing Formosa, but they gave it up in despair. The Chinese left the land virtually a wilderness, and the French and English, who might easily enough have acquired it, preferred not to put their foot into the interior of that savage island.

Taming the Wild Natives. 馴服原住民

結果、日本在1894-1895年的日清戰爭的終結後要求台灣時、清國有意願及喜樂於割讓台灣、李鴻章冷笑的述說日本將發見此島是極惡的掘出物
Therefore, when Japan demanded Formosa after the conclusion of the Chinese-Japanese war of 1894-1895, China was willing, if not glad, to cede to it, and Li Hung-Chang remarked sarcastically that Japan would find the island an exceedingly bad bargain.
~London Times 24 Sept 1904 『倫敦新聞』
 

Record ID: 1547172081R021   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    11:18:34 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 >相對於台灣目前陷入中國的程度, 蔡總統的說法不痛不癢 不到位。

[一扁一國] 對說法倒是超有感的.
 

Record ID: 1547172081R022   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    11:19:25 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 >[一扁一國]政團 到底是在野 還是 執政?

請到位再說.
 

Record ID: 1547172081R023   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Simon, on Jan/11/2019    11:21:44 (IP code: X.X.156.235)
 第四(b),

我們要積極推進兩岸經濟合作制度化,打造兩岸共同市場,為發展增動力,為合作添活力,壯大中華民族經濟。兩岸要應通盡通,提升經貿合作暢通、基礎設施聯通、能源資源互通、行業標準共通,可以率先實現金門、馬祖同福建沿海地區通水、通電、通氣、通橋。要推動兩岸文化教育、醫療衛生合作,社會保障和公共資源共享,支援兩岸鄰近或條件相當地區基本公共服務均等化、普惠化、便捷化。

====================

習近平已經進入更深入的細部作業了,
===========
文青呢喃 不是嗎?


蔡總統說:
兩岸經貿應該是互惠互利,共榮發展;但我們反對北京以「利中」為核心,以利誘及吸引台灣技術、資本及人才「走進中國大陸」的經濟統戰。我們將全力推動「壯大台灣」的各項策略及措施,鞏固以台灣為主體、台灣優先的經濟發展路線。
 

Record ID: 1547172081R024   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    11:39:55 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 025, 在講你自己. 我看很準阿!
也很自然, 可以加入 含淚-BIN.
 

Record ID: 1547172081R026   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    11:43:49 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 該辣就辣!面對中國進逼 蔡英文:我們都是「辣台派」
news.ltn.com.tw/news/politics/breakingnews/2667712

英語可以講 "A badass girl with a big heart." ^^
怎樣? 呵呵.



"蔡英文說,辣台妹之所以辣,是在於有自己的態度跟立場。更重要的是,面對任何步步進逼的挑戰,都能勇敢說出自己的心聲。

總統並說,其實,我們是很peace的,她應該不是辣台妹啦。不過,若台灣有需要時,「我們都是辣台派,該辣就辣」。"
 

Record ID: 1547172081R027   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    11:44:33 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 辣到你含淚. 呵呵. 

Record ID: 1547172081R028   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    12:12:41 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 [小英總統近來時來運轉,經習大大的「助陣」,和台派四大老的「諫策」加持下,表現可圈可點,頓由「谷底翻身」,網路聲量暴增,瞬間摞倒政壇「網紅」的柯、韓達數倍之多,成為眾多網友風靡的「辣台妹」!(資料照)]


talk.ltn.com.tw/article/breakingnews/2668498
 

Record ID: 1547172081R029   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Simon, on Jan/11/2019    12:45:41 (IP code: X.X.156.235)
 習近平


1. 兩岸經濟合作制度化,打造兩岸共同市場,

2. 兩岸要應通盡通,提升經貿合作暢通、基礎設施聯通、能源資源互通、行業標準共通,
可以率先實現金門、馬祖同福建沿海地區通水、通電、通氣、通橋。

3. 要推動兩岸文化教育、醫療衛生合作,社會保障和公共資源共享,支援兩岸鄰近或條件相當地區基本公共服務均等化、普惠化、便捷化。

=========

蔡總統的回答?

是不是因為林全說 當年(馬英九)簽訂的ECFA 是好的 ,
所以面對習近平說 兩岸經濟合作制度化,打造兩岸共同市場,
蔡總統無言以對

馬英九的金門通水, 蔡政府持續,
所以習近平順著下去侵門踏戶, 「實現金門、馬祖同福建沿海地區通水、通電、通氣、通橋....」?

 

Record ID: 1547172081R030   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    12:56:43 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 027, We are definitely red hot in Taiwan! 

Record ID: 1547172081R031   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    12:58:14 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 為台美人無法一起分享 感到遺憾. 喔密陀佛. -_- 

Record ID: 1547172081R032   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:筷子, on Jan/11/2019    13:01:39 (IP code: X.X.103.47)
 
※ 託管地變成強佔 ※


簽這鍋!
 

Record ID: 1547172081R033   From: 美國

回信 發言人:唐琬, on Jan/11/2019    13:35:34 (IP code: X.X.64.118)
 》美國二戰主要戰勝國 佔領國 台灣蔣政權託管地

完全是臆造
麥克阿瑟的一號令命令佔台日軍向蔣介石委員長投降,僅此而已
哪裡說道『美國將台灣交由蔣政權託管』?
有人造謠說麥克阿瑟『命令蔣介石到台灣受降』,那是毫無常識的一派胡言
麥克阿瑟一個區區戰區指揮官而已,他有什麼權利命令一個同盟國的國家元首?
他能命令斯大林丘吉爾嗎?
台灣回歸中國是遵守國際法的結果,完全是因為下面三個文件:


《日本投降书》:
我們,謹代表日本天皇、日本政府及日本皇軍總將,茲此接受一九四五年七月廿六日由美利堅合眾國政府、中國政府及大不列顛政府於波茨坦公告所擬訂的條款

《波茨坦公告》:
(八)開羅宣言之條件必將實施,而日本之主權必將限於本州、北海道、九州、四國及吾人所決定其他小島之內。

《开罗宣言》:
三国之宗旨在剥夺日本自1914年第一次世界大战开始以后在太平洋所夺得或占得之一切岛屿,在使日本所窃取于中国之领土,例如满洲、台湾、澎湖群岛等,归还中华民国

_______________________________________________________________________

The "Cairo Declaration" is included in the State Department publication "Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America, 1776-1949," edited by Charles I. Bevans (volume 3, p. 858). The source is given as 1943 For. Rel. (Conferences at Cairo and Tehran) 448. The State Department publication "Foreign Relations of the United States: Conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943," includes on page 448 the text of the communique relating to the meeting at Cairo of President Roosevelt, Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek, and Prime Minister Churchill. The source copy is reported as "Cairo Declaration Records." It was also printed in the Department of State Bulletin, vol. ix, December 4, 1943, p. 393.

MICHAEL J. KURTZ
Assistant Archivist
for Records Services - Washington, DC
 

Record ID: 1547172081R034   From: 美國

回信 發言人:ace, on Jan/11/2019    13:43:42 (IP code: X.X.229.47)
 There's no "The Big Four" only "The Big Three - Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph Stalin."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10A14FD345B157589DDAB0894DA405B8589F1D3&scp=1&sq=Cairo+Formosa+Declaration+Out+of+Date&st=p

The New York Time, Feb. 2, 1955
Cairo Formosa Declaration Out of Date, Says Churchill

By Drew Middleton
London, Feb. 1 - Sir Winston Churchill rejected today a Laborite suggestion that Formosa be handed over to Communist China under terms of Cairo Declaration. The future of the island is now an international problem, and the question of its future sovereignty was left undetermined by the Japanese peace treaty, the Prime Minister told the House of Commons.....

... 不過,winston churchill 到美國商議Formosa Crisis,做成The Formosa Resolution時到美國國會拜會時的會議記錄。

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1953/feb/03/formosa-united-states-decision#S5CV0510P0_19530203_HOC_299

基本上,美英當時主張 Formosa(台灣)中立化。
-------

另外,下面這個聯結有提到邱吉爾關於台灣地位的一些說法和 San Francisco Peace Treaty (SFPT)。
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AhC9P8FiNU4J:www.civil-taiwan.org/tw_history.htm+Winston+Churchill+statement+about+formorsa&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

基本上,當時美英不承認 Formosa(台灣)”已“或是未來”將“主權轉移過中國,否認Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek的說法,下面這個聯結是個論文,在第12頁以後開始辯証 所謂的”The Cairo Declaration“,裡面有很多史料引用,可以看看,還算完整。

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1950&context=ilj
宣言(declaration)比備忘錄(memorandum of understanding)還不如,備忘錄都可以不實行了,何況是宣言!再說,所謂的「開羅宣言」,其實也不過是蔣介石、羅斯福、邱吉爾三個人當時的一廂情願,哪裡會是法律文件?就更別說甚麼法律效力了!

省省吧,就當是一場歷史笑話吧!
http://www.civil-taiwan.org/cairo-potsdam.htm

"""The Cairo Declaration of 1943 stated the purpose to restore "Manchuria, Formosa and the Pescadores to the Republic of China." That Declaration, like other wartime declarations such as those of Yalta and Potsdam, was in the opinion of the United States Government subject to any final peace settlement where all relevant factors should be considered. The United States cannot accept the view, apparently put forward by the Soviet government, that the views of other Allies not represented at Cairo must be wholly ignored. Also, the United States believes that declarations such as that issued at Cairo must necessarily be considered in the light of the United Nations Charter, the obligations of which prevail over any other international agreement."""

Cindy Sui conveniently neglected to mention that Taiwan had been part of the Japan Empire since 1895. Many of my uncles spoke Japanese as first language and enjoyed a much higher standard of living and education level. In comparison, the Chinese refugees that came with KMT seemed like thugs and beggars with poor manners and most were illiterate.. Yet they wielded weapons, slaughtered and looted the Taiwanese for decades through KMT's totalitarian government....

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/why-defending-taiwan-is-illegal/
He may not be a pro-Beijing apologist, but he begins by making broad statements about the ambiguous foreign policy of nations then makes the assumption that all nations are treating Taiwan under the assumption that it's a province of China. Not only is this a very naive understanding of international politics unbefitting a professor from Hofstra, but also ignorant of contemporary politics. How is this guy an IR professor? Is he an IR professor?

Ku's claim that Taiwan is China's territory is false under international law. Note that he also does not mention Article 2 of the UN Charter, especially sec 2 and 3, and also gets Japan's position on Taiwan's status 100% wrong, Japan does not recognize that Taiwan is part of China.

The fact that Japan never "recognise" Taiwan as a part of China makes the article weak. The Japanese only "understands and respects this stand of the Government of the People's Republic of China" in the joint communiqu'e of 1972.

When you pretend to be in the middle but pick one side, get the facts backwards, label one side bizarro-world without mentioning the lying, selective use of history by the other, omit key points, and then justify the vile position of an authoritarian, expansionist power, you're writing propaganda, not analysis.
 

Record ID: 1547172081R035   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Simon, on Jan/11/2019    14:03:28 (IP code: X.X.156.235)
 R005

從 1995 李登輝前總統訪美, 康乃爾大學演說 「民之所欲 常在我心」with the people in my heart

到 2000年 陳水扁總統 「四不ㄧ沒有」積極開放
2008 馬英九 「九二共識 下面沒有了」ECFA
到 2019年蔡英文總統 「拒絕一國兩制」,馬規蔡隨的兩岸交流

我視之典範流失,不管是台灣單向表示還是美國背後的政策指導,

客觀環境之惡化固然是因為中國「崛起」,
說得更精準是:
台灣大量投資中國造成 台灣 vs中國相對消長關係所致,
習近平的講話持續「兩岸經濟合作制度化,打造兩岸共同市場,」加上海西平潭特區 金門通水
這種食髓知味勝利方程式。

台灣自己為交流而交流已經是最大的禍首,蔡總統的所謂駁斥習近平講話, 除了「九二共識就是一國兩制」, 似乎看不出對等 跟具體矯正現況的作法。
 

Record ID: 1547172081R036   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:fc, on Jan/11/2019    14:06:56 (IP code: X.X.93.215)
 
 

Record ID: 1547172081R037   From: 美國

回信 發言人:temo, on Jan/11/2019    16:15:47 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 公民論政, 要緊的是: Deal with it!
People of this nation are all ears!

講得落落長大抵都在炒冷飯, 好像自己是甚麼先知.

>台灣大量投資中國造成 台灣 vs中國相對消長關係所致,
...
似乎看不出對等 跟具體矯正現況的作法。
 

Record ID: 1547172081R038   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jan/11/2019    16:51:32 (IP code: X.X.137.61)
 >大量投資中國

资本是逐利的
以统计规律来说,已经赚到大钱的资本家们不比你们精明?

介绍一下,这是我前同事的创业公司,红夹克的是郭台铭

FXrly4.jpg
 

Record ID: 1547172081R039   From: 中國

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jan/11/2019    16:57:40 (IP code: X.X.137.61)
 天朝的发展机会岂是呆顽肥宅们能想象的?

FXrjcF.jpg
 

Record ID: 1547172081R040   From: 中國

本篇到此告一段落———版主

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