貼圖、程式等,版主可任意修改或刪除,轉貼文章請多用連結,一天 (00:00-23:59) 請只開一個話題,請大家合作,謝謝。09/16/2019 01:53:15     意見庫存
 

外獨會意見交流

 

流浪者的獨白

發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    07:09:09 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 
在身心俱疲、希望破滅之前,流浪者獨自一人看著【碧海藍天】。影片中男主角說:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。

流浪者留下了眼淚,寫下了心得,想像著潛到海底的自己找不找得到回到水面的理由。這是流浪者流浪之前的告白。

他決定找一個完全陌生的國度,在筆記本上寫下【海港】兩字,開始籌備旅程。準備了一張回程可修改日期的機票,訂了一間可住兩天的Hostel,背著簡單的行囊,流浪者展開了生平第一次的異鄉之旅。

『林懷民到印度流浪,回來之後他創造了『雲門舞集』。我找了九州,因為九州跟高雄一樣擁有海港,我在高雄土生土長了30年,並不真正認識高雄,也不了解自己。』流浪者簡單交代了他流浪的目的。

指著九州的地圖,流浪者一一敘述了他流浪異鄉60多天的經歷,他說:
「流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全不通的國度裡嘗試著生存下去;在點到點之間,時間變得沒有意義,每天你孤獨一人出發,在過程中你所遭遇到的人、事、物,都是不可知的變數。」

我對著幻燈片的文字沉思,流浪者的聲音又緩緩細訴著:
「天哪~我騎著老舊的摩托車從一個海港到下一個海港之間,曾經遭逢傾盆大雨,躲到一棟大樓的客廳,剛好碰到音樂會的排演,女高音彷彿對我獨唱,那種又狼狽又驚喜的遭遇,竟是無法形容的心境。」

我微笑著傾聽著,試圖融入當下。雖然帶著筆記本,我甚麼都沒記下,一切自然而然印入了腦海裡。流浪者繼續說:
「印象最深刻的是,在風雨交加的天候、天人交戰之下仍然堅定按行程出發。就這樣騎了兩三個鐘頭才到了渡輪碼頭,結果卻發現渡輪停開的公告。當下我進退兩難就嚎啕大哭了起來…。」

在我眼前娓娓訴說的是一位38歲高挑俊俏充滿藝術氣息的年輕人。他說他30歲開啟了異國之旅,而且之後就沒有斷續過,每次他都有找到回高雄的理由,每次他都能發現不一樣的自己。現在的他不再汲汲碌碌,他享受當下的生活,甚至專心做好像洗碗、洗衣服這樣的家務事,而等待是一種美好的過程和體驗!
 

Record ID: 1555456149   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    07:17:33 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 禮拜天在聽完【流浪者的旅程】演講會後,第一件事是找法國電影【碧海藍天】來看。

沉潛了兩天,回想電影情節加上當時演講的腦海記憶,記錄了流浪者的獨白。

旅行尤其是長時間的異國之旅,真的會改變一個人的想法與對生命及生活的態度,我心有戚戚焉!
 

Record ID: 1555456149R001   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    07:21:25 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
  

Record ID: 1555456149R002   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    07:38:25 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 更正:
在我眼前娓娓訴說的是一位38歲高挑俊俏充滿藝術氣息的年輕人。他說他30歲開啟了異國之旅,而且之後就沒有斷續過,每次他都有找到回高雄的理由,每次他都能發現不一樣的自己。現在的他不再汲汲碌碌,他享受當下的生活,甚至專心做好像洗碗、洗衣服這樣的家務事,而等待是一種美好的過程和體驗!


演講者,邱承漢在2016年開啟了九州流浪之旅,之後就從未間斷過旅行,在人生最低潮期找到了生命的出路。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R003   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    07:55:36 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 邱承漢 山改變了人生



說起來真的會氣死人,認識邱承漢的人都知道,2011年他離開台北金融業,脫掉都會菁英的生活,回高雄開民宿之後,除了忙民宿、忙社區經營,其他時間幾乎一直看他在玩,不是爬山,就是在國外連續兩週以上的流浪旅行,現在銀行舊同事再見他,已經完全不認得了,他整個人從身體到心理都變成另一個樣子,「我非常喜歡現在的自己和生活。」

做民宿之後,他還開始喜歡爬山,雖然第一次去嘉明湖,傻傻穿著連身式的機車雨衣,在高山上淒風苦雨,狀況慘到無法攻頂,但「以前從來沒去過台灣高山,那裡和都市郊山的能量與氛圍完全不同。」才發現原來走進自然是這麼舒服的一件事,還為了讓自己更享受爬山,他開始規律地在日常生活裡加入慢跑、重訓。「至少希望爬山不是痛苦的,就算走得慢,也不能覺得折磨。」讓自己的體力變好,才有更多餘裕去享受。從民宿的勞力活、步行式旅行到爬百岳,這幾件事不斷地交叉發生,改變他的運動習慣,相互間像螺旋一樣慢慢增強。「登山一直在推我的極限,可以背著重裝、至少6天不洗澡、每天還要走十幾公里、甚至要克服大雨泥濘、處理濕透的裝備。」靠一顆背包,要處理這麼多問題,相較之下旅行實在是舒服太多了。

今年因為工作太忙,無法計畫動輒一、兩個月的旅行,但他想挑戰長天數的百岳縱走路線。「我很好奇,如果把爬山時間拉長到一個禮拜以上,會把我逼到什麼地方,我很好奇那個未知的東西,當突破之後,回頭會發現很多事都變得簡單。」爬山如此,生活亦然。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R004   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    08:34:01 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 這篇【流浪者的獨白】是憑腦海中的記憶及看完【碧海藍天】感受演講者心靈的震撼,編排記錄下來的。

我最大的收穫是:
真正的流浪,是一張回程沒有日期的機票及一天或兩天的旅店住宿安排,其餘就交給未來,順其自然,隨遇而安!流浪過後,你會重新認識自己,接受自己,更能欣賞生命,享受生活。

邱承漢更指出,流浪使他學會靜靜等待,黑暗中等待黎明的來臨,陌生環境中等待生命的偶遇,等待之中欣賞周遭景物,發現寧謐之美。

寫到這裡,我必須細細體會,留些時間給自己靜思。^^
 

Record ID: 1555456149R005   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:z, on Apr/17/2019    08:42:30 (IP code: X.X.229.28)
  

Record ID: 1555456149R006   From: 加拿大

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/17/2019    09:01:00 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

Do you know this song: 《流浪者之歌》Zigeunerweisen - Sarasate?

流浪者之歌 was my elder brother favor song, he liked to turn off the light, lay on the sofa and closed his eyes to listen to 流浪者之歌:


 

Record ID: 1555456149R007   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/17/2019    09:20:42 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

The definition: "流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全不通的國度裡嘗試著生存下去".

Many of us(早期留學生) fit it, there are many 早期留學生 in this forum, some of us may like share the experience with you.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R008   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    09:22:56 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 Dear z & Golden,

Both of you have something in common, you've posted the same song in this thread.

Yes, I know this beautiful song. Thank you very much.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R009   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    09:32:02 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 Golden,

Welcome to share your experience with us.
I'd been in San Francisco for half a year and found that I couldn't get used to living alone.
I'll try to travel and wander alone hopefully someday in the near future.
Well, I don't know. But the lecture really had enormous impact on me.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R010   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    09:40:24 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 演講過後,我先生分享了他在恆春遇見的一位70多歲的日本老先生的流浪之旅。
老先生已來台灣徒步旅行兩個多月了,夜晚他都找學校教室睡覺,一大早就出發離開。
蟹逅的當天,老先生說他還走完整個台灣,他會完成台灣走透透的流浪之旅後,才返回日本。
所以,老先生的回程也是未知數。

我聽了一整個震撼不已,懷抱夢想、勇敢實現夢想的日本老人!
 

Record ID: 1555456149R011   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/17/2019    09:46:52 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

My experience was different from others', you may want to hear from others' first.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R012   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    09:48:21 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 更正:

蟹逅的當天,老先生說他還走完整個台灣,他會完成台灣走透透的流浪之旅後,才返回日本
 

Record ID: 1555456149R013   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    10:44:38 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 長時間的旅行,尤其是國外自助旅行,需要一些勇氣與膽識。
大部分跟團,例如法國12天深度之旅,紐西蘭12天南北島深度之旅,很可惜回來後印象都很模糊。
只有兩次長達一個月的自助旅行,卻是感受良深。

第一次,邊開車,邊沿路找遊客中心(Visitor Center)用不流利的英語問景點,照著建議開車及玩賞。
那是美加西之旅,我深深喜愛美國101海岸公路的美景及加拿大國道1號沿途的夢幻山湖風光,Banff、Jaspere國家公園也都留下深刻印象。因為沒任何規劃,邊走邊玩,有時會找到一夜USD250的住宿,所以花費較高。記得在美國柏克萊大學的校園餵食松鼠及在附近餐廳吃到超好吃的貝果。也記得在加拿大維多利亞飲用令人垂涎的英式下午茶及小糕點,遊美崙美奐的布查花園(Butchart Garden)。總之;印象非常深刻,許下他日重遊的心願。

第二次,重遊舊地,但多了10天的阿拉斯加郵輪之旅。此外,也多了一些景點,如西雅圖的Banbridge Island就很推薦,北溫哥華也是,還有加拿大西南方的維儂,Banff附近的Canmore小鎮都超級愛的。因為事先規劃好住宿,所以行程上的安排比較不能隨心所欲是缺點。預算可按自己需要。

對我而言,多次的跟團經驗,比不上任何一次的自助旅行之體驗與懷念。^^

但根據邱承漢先生的演講,我那種體驗不算是流浪者之旅。流浪者之旅要像他或日本老先生那種很克難式的和隨意隨興到處走走逛逛,時而搭便車的才算。(租車或住高級旅館的都不算喔)

 

Record ID: 1555456149R014   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    11:17:16 (IP code: X.X.197.84)
 
 

Record ID: 1555456149R015   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:ftb$$, on Apr/17/2019    11:22:13 (IP code: X.X.180.246)
 《撒哈拉的故事》出版商對書的內容簡介寫著:

『《撒哈拉的故事》是三毛膾炙人口的散文佳作。在她的內心深處,撒哈拉沙漠是夢中情人,是不能解釋的,屬於前世回憶似的鄉愁,莫名其妙,她毫無保留地把自己交給了那一片陌生的大地。每一粒沙地里的石子,尚且知道珍愛它,每一次日出和日落,都舍不得忘懷,更何況,這一張張活生生的臉孔,又如何能在回憶里抹去他們。在適應了撒哈拉大漠枯燥、單調的生活之后,她重新提筆寫作,記錄與荷西苦中作樂的婚姻生活、撒哈拉威人的異域文化,以及沙漠地帶的動盪局勢……十幾篇質朴的散文,洋溢着旺盛的生命力,傾倒了全世界的華文讀者。』

我不知道這算不算賴粉 Joy san 想像中的流浪? 雖然沒有太多感性的獨白,也在途中碰到了一位也愛流浪的短命伴侶…..
 

Record ID: 1555456149R016   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:ftb$$, on Apr/17/2019    11:27:17 (IP code: X.X.180.246)
 

Yes, for the Olive tree of my dream
Don't ask from where I have come
My home is far, far away





 

Record ID: 1555456149R017   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Apr/17/2019    12:23:47 (IP code: X.X.158.133)
 蕭泰然大師好像也為她瘋狂過?
That's a sad story, anyway.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R018   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:ftb$$, on Apr/17/2019    15:01:52 (IP code: X.X.180.246)
 temo:

才子佳人本就難割捨,若不是男女之情的牽絆也難逃惺惺相惜的心意。
俱亡矣、空遺恨。Ç'est la vie!
 

Record ID: 1555456149R019   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:ftb$$, on Apr/17/2019    16:12:56 (IP code: X.X.180.246)
 文科的資深才女『理則學』0學分,邏輯概念缺如!

『:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。』

他馬的!「懷有身孕深愛著他的女友」難道不構成他「回到水面的理由」嗎?
文科的資深才女認同他這種自私自利、矯俗干名、薄情寡義的最后獨白嗎?

三毛為他傷心欲絕、幾近殉情的荷西之死大概不會因為找不到回到水面的理由。
情節變造得不倫不類,大悖常理!
 

Record ID: 1555456149R020   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:temo, on Apr/17/2019    19:34:36 (IP code: X.X.203.22)
 019, 對了, 那時還不是大師. 他小三毛兩歲, 算是同齡層.

[橄欖樹]還曾經被禁, 算是李泰然輕狂的時代的作品.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R021   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:阿春, on Apr/17/2019    22:10:49 (IP code: X.X.226.210)
 阿春30多歲時也曾幻想,最多就幹到50歲

然後揹著相機當個 backpacker,到日本的小鄉下拍照喝酒泡湯

幾十年過去了,去過日本小鄉下,也拍過照、喝過酒、泡過湯

但這些愜意的浪遊心情卻都不是一次出現,都是出張過程的偶爾為之

當真的閒下來了,人也老了,相機已揹不動、人也走不遠了

所以想到就去做,活在當下
 

Record ID: 1555456149R022   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    22:35:07 (IP code: X.X.39.151)
 阿春,

晚安!
碧海藍天真的很好看。但貼不上來。
你可以Google碧海藍天 Part1, 看完再重新輸入碧海藍天 Part2, 最後 Part3
分三次看完,大約需要180分鐘。值得一看喔~
 

Record ID: 1555456149R023   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    22:43:23 (IP code: X.X.39.151)
 以下是碧海藍天的介紹,請點連結:
Record ID: 1555456149R024   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/17/2019    22:47:59 (IP code: X.X.39.151)
 以下是碧海藍天的介紹,請自行連結:http://app2.atmovies.com.tw/film/fBatm0874365/

本片為法國導演盧貝松(Luc Besson)的成名作,他一手編導並以絕妙的水底攝影令人讚賞,獲得1989年凱撒獎最佳男主角、最佳影片等多項提名,最後以艾瑞克塞拉的空靈音樂拿下最佳原創音樂,與最佳音效獎(Pierre Befve等三人)。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R025   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:阿春, on Apr/17/2019    22:53:45 (IP code: X.X.226.210)
 謝謝阿JOY

我會在可以靜靜時欣賞

這是1988的老片,不過台灣好像這兩年才上映
 

Record ID: 1555456149R026   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/18/2019    08:23:11 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

The definition:of 流浪: "流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全different 的國度裡嘗試著生存下去".

Skipping most of experience:

1. No one help me transfer airplane, no one help me transport from airport to greyhound bus station.
I took a greyhound bus to a small town in New Mexico in the evening of the first day I arrived US in 1979. I looked at the scenery through the window, it was very pretty, I felt wonderful, but it was a dark street when I got off the bus(10 PM), I had one luggage on each hand and one bag of books on my back, I did not know where to go, I just walked toward the light far away to start my unknown future.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R027   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    08:35:25 (IP code: X.X.133.228)
 


流浪者的獨白



在身心俱疲、希望破滅之前,流浪者獨自一人看著【碧海藍天】。影片中男主角說:「潛到湛藍的海底並不難,最難的是,能找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。

流浪者寫下了心得,想像著潛到海底的自己找不找得到回到水面的理由。這是流浪者流浪之前的告白。

他決定找一個完全陌生的國度,在筆記本上寫下【海港】兩字,開始籌備旅程。準備了一張回程可修改日期的機票,訂了一間可住兩天的Hostel,背著簡單的行囊,流浪者展開了生平第一次的異鄉流浪之旅。

『林懷民到印度流浪,回來之後他創造了『雲門舞集』。我找了九州,因為九州跟高雄一樣擁有海港,我在高雄土生土長了30年,並不真正認識高雄,也不了解自己。』簡單交代了他流浪的目的。

指著九州的地圖,流浪者一一敘述了他流浪異鄉60多天的經歷,他說:
「流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全不通的國度裡嘗試著生存下去;在點到點之間,通常是等待適當時機的出現,時間變得沒有意義,每天你孤獨一人出發,在過程中你所遭遇到的人、事、物,都是不可知的變數。」

我對著幻燈片的文字沉思,流浪者的聲音又緩緩細訴著:
「天哪~我騎著老舊的摩托車從一個海港到下一個海港之間,曾經遭逢傾盆大雨,躲到一棟大樓的大廳,剛好碰到音樂會的排演,女高音彷彿對我獨唱,那種又狼狽又驚喜的遭遇,竟是無法形容的心境。」

我微笑著傾聽著,試圖融入當下。雖然帶著筆記本,我甚麼都沒記下,一切自然而然印入了腦海裡。流浪者繼續說:
「印象最深刻的是,在風雨交加的天候,所住的飯店當天已客滿,無法延期。天人交戰之下仍然堅定按行程往下一個點出發。就這樣騎了兩三個鐘頭才到了渡輪碼頭,結果卻發現渡輪停開的公告。當下我進退兩難就嚎啕大哭了起來…。」

在我眼前娓娓訴說的是一位38歲高挑俊俏充滿藝術氣息的年輕人。他說他2016年開啟了異國流浪之旅,而且之後就沒有斷續過,每次他都能找到回高雄的理由,每次他都能發現不一樣的自己。現在的他不再汲汲碌碌,他享受當下的生活,甚至專心做好像洗碗、洗衣服這樣簡單的家務事。而流浪使他學會靜靜等待,黑暗中等待黎明的來臨,陌生環境中等待生命的偶遇,等待之中欣賞周遭景物,發現寧謐之美。

 

Record ID: 1555456149R028   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    08:44:51 (IP code: X.X.133.228)
 Dear Golden,

Thanks for wonderful sharing.
I had also been through a very similar situation as you depicted in R027.

All my journeys in foreign had been planned by myself and nobody had ever helped me.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R029   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    08:53:47 (IP code: X.X.133.228)
 給到訪的網友:

由於原文疏漏之處頗多,文意沒有交代清楚。
所以,修正更改於R028.

雖然開欄是很隨興的事,但我會叮嚀著自己盡量做好功課再PO文。
這是對網友基本的尊重。

本文的敘述針對演講會的主題、內容及現場氛圍,如實客觀地記錄。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R030   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/18/2019    09:16:35 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

2. Skipping most of experience: Two semesters later, I wanted to transfer to UMR (University of Missouri -Rolla, the university's name was changed), I bought a $150 car (1963 Plymouth Fury), this car had many problem, I could fix/repair car myself to save money to survive.
I left that small town and drove to Las Vegas, NV (the casinos’ city) for a short term job during the summer time (before driving to New University).
 

Record ID: 1555456149R031   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    09:39:39 (IP code: X.X.133.228)
 >I bought a $150 car (1963 Plymouth Fury), this car had many problem, I could fix/repair car myself to save money to survive.

Hard to imagine how difficult the situation you'd been through.
I usually rent a car from one place to another.
I couldn't imagine I owned a second car like what you'd had. I have no idea about cars.


>I left that small town and drove to Las Vegas, NV (the casinos' city) for a short term job during the summer time (before driving to New University).

Let say, if I'd had the courage to apply for an intern job and got used to living alone in the US, I might have already been successful in my academic credit rather than dropping out school in the middle and returning back in Taiwan.

Golden, that's why made us so different from each other, you've actually overcome hardship in your life. Good for you.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R032   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:阿春, on Apr/18/2019    10:15:16 (IP code: X.X.226.210)
 兩張浪遊的偶拍

巴黎大叔在餵鳥,知道我在拍照,刻意擺POSE讓我拍

 

Record ID: 1555456149R033   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:阿春, on Apr/18/2019    10:17:37 (IP code: X.X.226.210)
 小日本女生也知道我在拍,刻意讓鴿子非在她身上,拍完還會給我個微笑

 

Record ID: 1555456149R034   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    10:23:58 (IP code: X.X.133.228)
 這首歌自第一次聽就很喜歡了,其實也很適合貼在這裡。



另外,這欄有z的貼圖貼歌(so wonderful),Golden及阿春的分享回饋(so impressive),我已深深感受到開此欄的值得與欣慰。謝謝!
 

Record ID: 1555456149R035   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/18/2019    14:49:59 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

"a short term job" is not "an intern job".

What I tried to tell you was that : There are two types of 流浪者, one is us (早期留學生), we knew how to reach/get our goals, we went through hardship and succeeded in our life/live, we have responsibility for ourselves/families/friends/societies/countries/...etc
the other type is those people who don't want to face the real life, escape from real life, they image their goals which do not exist or can't reach/get. they don't have responsibility, 【碧海藍天】影片中男主角 is a good example: 最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。 he did not know that he has responsibility for his "懷有身孕深愛著他的女友" and his unborn child, if he were my younger brother, I would beat him up.

I have more experience to share, but I think I should stop here before you get angry with me.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R036   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    15:12:20 (IP code: X.X.37.150)
 Golden,

Thanks for your R036, a very good point of view.

But please tell me why you thought that I should've got angry with you?

 

Record ID: 1555456149R037   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/18/2019    15:59:11 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

You like this very much:
"在身心俱疲、希望破滅之前,流浪者獨自一人看著【碧海藍天】。影片中男主角說:「潛到湛藍的海底並不難,最難的是,能找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。".

I don't show you my criticism on those statements. We have big difference on "idea of value" of above statements. if you read R036 carefully, you may figure out what I tried to tell you. the "Skipping most of experience" means "Skipping most of hardship experience to tell you".
 

Record ID: 1555456149R038   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    16:04:23 (IP code: X.X.37.150)
 再申明一次:
本文的敘述針對演講會的主題、內容及現場氛圍,如實客觀地記錄。


為了能體會流浪者出發前的心情聯結,我先看了【碧海藍天】這部盧貝松大導演的成名作。
然後,才根據演講會上所聽來及看到的訊息記錄下這篇文章。

如果大家能花大約三小時的時間從頭看到尾看完【碧海藍天】這部電影,也許就能理解盧貝松為何這樣安排電影情節。
男主角賈克,自幼因母親離家出走,父親潛水意外死亡,從此就常潛水跟海豚戲耍,把海豚當作家人看待。
賈克的特質是從小沉默寡言,從不發問,也不愛與人爭...
在童年玩伴奪得世界潛水冠軍後的力邀下,賈克也報名參加了當年度的世界潛水大賽。
他們兩人在練習潛水時,賈克超越了好友的紀錄,潛入了一般人無法潛入的更深的湛藍海底。
好友不聽從專業醫護人員的勸說,硬要潛入到賈克所到達的海底深度,因而喪身海底。
其餘內容大家自己看電影吧。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R039   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    16:14:31 (IP code: X.X.37.150)
 Golden,

I would never get angry with you because I always know you meant no harm at me.

Please just share whatever you would as much as you could, I'll appreciate it very much.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R040   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/18/2019    16:26:38 (IP code: X.X.37.150)
 我很喜歡【碧海藍天】這部電影,並且極力推薦大家能撥冗去看。

對於生命,我抱持著一種觀念,我們只能主宰自己的生命及命運,無法決定別人或替別人決定甚麼的。
與其輕易評斷一個人,我選擇了解與接納。

從自己或別人身上,我們會得到一些啟示,好的和不好的都是一體兩面,都能帶給我們省思。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R041   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/19/2019    08:53:36 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

It looks like you can't understand what I try to tell you,there is no point to share more of my “流浪者 experience", I use the other way to make you understand:

These are facts:
1. I went through “hardship’ much more than you can think of.
Do I become a depressed/unhappy guy who like to complain and get angry easily?
No, the other way.

2. I am a very happy guy (I , myself wanted to be a happy guy).
Then, the question, how to be happy?
There are many ways to be happy, one of them: To appreciate what you have now,
I give you one example: One night, we were on the top of a mountain to do
“military night training” during 8 weeks of “student military training”, I watched the streets’ lights far away, I felt that it would be wonderful if I could ride bicycle freely on streets now, I did not feel freedom was so wonderful until I lost it. You may not feel it is wonderful that you can see to read, close your eyes, image you can't open your eyes to see anymore , how do you feel ?

3. This is one of my philosophy: If I can't change the environment, I change my attitude toward the environment (I look at the bright side of things to make me happy).

4. If 3.does not work, then I will become a 流浪者(it happened in 1979), and it is our topic here.

5.others, but they are not our topic.

Now we go to see the other type of 流浪者(he is not really qualified as a 流浪者) “影片中男主角說:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。

男主角 was selfish and stupid.
Selfish : he did not know he had responsibility for 懷有身孕深愛著他的女友 and his unborn child(he made them)
He did not know he had responsibility for the societies, the societies provided him the 潛水 equipment/supplies , food, medical treatment(he will get healthy problem from 潛水) and others.

Stupid: He will get “潛水 disease”(you may get the information from internet, if you can’t, you may ask me).
He does not need 找到回到水面的理由, whenever he feel hungry or he need replace oxygen tank, he will 回到水面.
潛到海底與海豚共遊 may only make him happy for a short time, then he will feel boring, he will become an unhappy man


林懷民: "流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全不通的國度裡嘗試著生存下去."

“Then 林懷民決定找一個完全陌生的國度,在筆記本上寫下【海港】兩字,開始籌備旅程。準備了一張回程可修改日期的機票,訂了一間可住兩天的Hostel,背著簡單的行囊,流浪者展開了生平第一次的異鄉流浪之旅。” he was a traveler not a 流浪者 as he defined.


R007, my elder brother did that since he was a high school student, you may want to listen to 流浪者之歌 , do the same thing as my elder brother did and think of what I want to tell you.

 

Record ID: 1555456149R042   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    11:28:47 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 Golden,

Wow, I didn't expect that much of what you've tried to let me understand what you meant to be. And, with so detailed depictions one by one, if I still have missed your points of view, then I am really an idiot.

You're a decent man who's always been holding positive and optimistic demeanor of which the character you've naturally been endowed never seemed too strange to me ever since I had my first conversation with you in this forum.

However, I must say, after carefully reading your post in R042, you really have mistaken several meanings of words and phrases that I'd put in the article of 流浪者的獨白。

I am sorry for not being able to write it clear enough for easy understanding, it's my bad.
And, I guess if you have the doubts and questioning then others probably have the same ones. Let me try to type in Chinese in the next column and explain your point of 5 out there.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R043   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    11:42:50 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 Quote
5.others, but they are not our topic. (以下暫省略)

一一解釋之前,我想先說的是:
在【碧海藍天】這部電影中,盧貝松沒有幫男主角找到回到水面的理由。
但自稱是流浪者的演講者,在這部電影中得到了啟示,他在每次流浪過後總能找到回家的理由。
所以,【碧海藍天】對於他的影響是深刻且有啟發性的,因此演講者極力推薦聽眾觀賞這部電影。

我在這樣的情景下,聽完演講後的第一件事就是觀賞【碧海藍天】。
並在【流浪者的獨白】的第一段就置入電影最令人唏噓感嘆的終結點。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R044   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    12:44:26 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 續R044,
>Now we go to see the other type of 流浪者(he is not really qualified as a 流浪者) “影片中男主角說:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣。


男主角賈克或演講者邱承漢是不是夠格配稱為流浪者,我認為當事人對自己的認知比其他人對他們的認知來得重要。
賈克以潛水工作為生,四處為家,而他的皮夾裡放的家人相片是海豚,他給海豚取名字並收集各種海豚。每次階段性工作完成後,賈克總會找到回家的理由去看他的海豚,並帶禮物給牠們。
後來,他遇見對他心儀的女友...,但好友葬身海底,給他帶來無法承受的衝擊,他又再一次潛入湛藍海底不願浮上水面,直到硬被撐出水面,這時的他已身懷重傷,而且並不知剛交往不久的女友懷有身孕一事...其他細節,還是請有興趣的人自己觀賞電影吧。

邱承漢在艱難的困境中掙扎,【碧海藍天】帶給他很大的震撼。他決定去流浪,所以向林懷民基金會申請流浪經費。他們所定義的流浪者,就是用最簡單的經費,完成一個人獨自在異鄉國度流浪的過程。所以只能訂一晚或兩晚的住宿,及一張回程open可改日期的機票,其它接下來的旅程要靠打工維生,要靠生命的偶遇安排行程...。這是一系列的【流浪者】講座,邱承漢是第一個演講者。



>男主角 was selfish and stupid.
Selfish : he did not know he had responsibility for 懷有身孕深愛著他的女友 and his unborn child(he made them)
He did not know he had responsibility for the societies, the societies provided him the 潛水 equipment/supplies , food, medical treatment(he will get healthy problem from 潛水) and others.


上一段已經解釋了,好友葬身海底,賈克自責而潛入海底不願浮上來,他身受重傷時並不知道女友懷孕一事。我在影片中能得到的暗示是海豚在夢中呼喚著他,而夢醒後的他大概知道自己將不久於人世了...


>Stupid: He will get “潛水 disease”(you may get the information from internet, if you can’t, you may ask me).
He does not need 找到回到水面的理由, whenever he feel hungry or he need replace oxygen tank, he will 回到水面.
潛到海底與海豚共遊 may only make him happy for a short time, then he will feel boring, he will become an unhappy man


的確,賈克潛入海底不願浮出水面而身受重傷,他明明知道那樣,可是他還是找不到浮上水面的理由。他可以跟海豚共遊戲耍一整個晚上直到日出,如果你有看【碧海藍天】的話,你還會知道人們形容賈克擁有海豚、鯨魚般的肺。壓倒賈克的最後一根稻草就是眼見好友葬身海底而只能含淚送別。

賈克是不是自私又愚蠢的人也是從電影中的一開頭就能看出了,他不是的。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R045   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/19/2019    12:48:00 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

Can you type "idea of value"and "idea of life" in Chinese (three words) for me?

I guided many of my friends to be happy with life/work/..., my friends were depressed sometime, I am the guy should be depressed(went through so many hardship and things were unfair to me), but I am a very happy guy, I know the reasons, but I can't make them same as me, I can only help them case by case(if they were depressed, I would make them to feel better in each case). Even in a face to face long conversation, it is hard for me to make my friends to understand what I want them to build their own "idea of value" "idea of life" ...(those things are common sense to me, but my friends don't understand what do those things really mean, they can only repeat the definitions got from textbooks or internet).

R007, my elder brother did that since he was a high school student, you may want to listen to 流浪者之歌 , do the same thing as my elder brother did, you may get one type of happiness you never have before.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R046   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    12:58:59 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 
>林懷民: "流浪意味著孤單一人置身在完全沒有人認識你的地方;在ㄧ個語言完全不通的國度裡嘗試著生存下去."

>“Then 林懷民決定找一個完全陌生的國度,在筆記本上寫下【海港】兩字,開始籌備旅程。準備了一張回程可修改日期的機票,訂了一間可住兩天的Hostel,背著簡單的行囊,流浪者展開了生平第一次的異鄉流浪之旅。” he was a traveler not a 流浪者 as he defined.


以上兩段敘述,都不是林懷民,而是邱承漢。也是我這篇【流浪者的獨白】中所描述的主角--邱承漢。是不是夠格當個流浪者,我在R045已有說明了。如果邱承漢不夠格,他就不會申請到林懷民基金會的流浪基金,如果他不夠格當個流浪者,【流浪者】講座,就不會由他來開啟序幕。


回答之前,我重新看了R028,一次又一次地,並且邀請我先生一起看,我們不了解為何文章會造成讀者的誤解。謝謝Golden一一點出了質疑,讓我有機會一一說明。^__^
 

Record ID: 1555456149R047   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    13:12:06 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 >Can you type "idea of value" and "idea of value" in Chinese (three words) for me?

"idea of value"==>價值的理念/觀念/理想...。

"idea of value"==>生活的理念/觀念/理想...。

問我這個英語三腳貓的中文翻譯,我只能做到以上的解釋了。^^
 

Record ID: 1555456149R048   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    13:22:16 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 R048更正:
>Can you type "idea of value" and "idea of life" in Chinese (three words) for me?

"idea of value"==>價值的理念/觀念/理想...。

"idea of life"==>生活的理念/觀念/理想...。

很抱歉,copy過程中,出了差錯。^^
 

Record ID: 1555456149R049   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/19/2019    13:25:48 (IP code: X.X.37.170)
 Geez, correction again.

"idea of value"==>價值觀

"idea of life"==>生活觀

我忘了只能翻成三個字。 Sorry again.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R050   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/19/2019    13:54:31 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:


Thank you, they are what I want, 價值觀, 人生觀 and the base of happiness are the things I really want to tell you(later), not that stupid movie.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R051   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Golden, on Apr/20/2019    10:54:20 (IP code: X.X.46.31)
 Joy:

I don't discuss 價值觀 deeply(it need go through many 範疇 and make people confused easily), I just introduce 價值觀 briefly. 價值觀 can be formed naturally (human/animals have at least 4 intrinsic motivations), it can also be formed by deep thinking.

There are some of my 價值觀(which relate to the topic “流浪者”);
1 Consideration for my families/friends/…(but not the term of families/friends).
2. Do the habits (but not the term of habit).
3. Truth is Truth, false is false, no one(including the authorities in the fields , my researching adviser/bosses , teachers/professors, my father, 中國國民黨...etc) can make me believe “false is truth”.

This movie 碧海藍天 is just a movie, 男主角 does not exist in the real life, the story wrote by a author who might not have experience of 潛水 (me either). But the statements :”影片中男主角說:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣” which was against my 價值觀(1)

Habit can be changed or created, our bodies don't let us do the same habit continually (our bodies will get boring, it is bodies’ nature), I had/have many habits:
playing Chinese chess/chess/soccer/rugby/bridge/martial art,lifting weight,listening music, sing,do electronic project, watching 3D movies,reading books, think deeply,working in my garden,..etc, I even consider my work is my habit, I am happy to do any of my habit and I am good at playing/doing all of my habits, there is no way that to do/play my habits will be against any of my 價值觀.
The habit of “潛到海底與海豚共遊” should not lead to “放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣”

I don't like to travel/drive/take airplane, but my 價值觀(3), I became 流浪者 6 times(went through many hardship(I almost got killed more than one time)), now I have so many things you will not believe, you just need believe one thing : I am a very happy guy.

I just want to tell you one thing: Build your own 價值觀 which can make you happy.

“Build your own 價值觀 which can make you happy” is a big topic, I hope that you can figure it out yourself.

PS: 潛水 disease has nothing to do with “海豚、鯨魚般的肺”.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R052   From: 美國

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/20/2019    11:56:58 (IP code: X.X.53.23)
 >This movie 碧海藍天 is just a movie, 男主角 does not exist in the real life, the story wrote by a author who might not have experience of 潛水 (me either). But the statements :”影片中男主角說:「潛到海底並不難,最難的是,找到回到水面的理由。」最終;男主角選擇潛到海底與海豚共遊,放任懷有身孕深愛著他的女友在岸上無助地吶喊與哭泣” which was against my 價值觀(1)


賈克知道自己將不久於人世(請參考R045),他的選擇有兩點解釋:
1. 像貓一樣的行為,找個安靜隱密的地方靜靜地等待死亡。
2. 潛到海底隱密的地方,靜靜地陪伴他的家人海豚。

他最後的行為不是選擇自殺,而是選擇避免在女友面前死亡,選擇與水底的家人團聚,並靜靜死去。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R053   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/20/2019    12:15:00 (IP code: X.X.53.23)
 Golden,

Thanks for sharing your "idea of value" and life experiences with us.
And I believe what you'd gone through as a 流浪者 six times in your life has actually made you become a very happy and confident self-person.

I am still exploring myself-being, and your sharing in R052 which I appreciate very much is profoundly impressive and very helpful.
 

Record ID: 1555456149R054   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Joy, on Apr/22/2019    12:08:18 (IP code: X.X.197.253)
 本來我不能用Firefox在外獨貼文,後來我找到了解決方式:

1.開啟Firefox==>點電腦右上方最右邊三條線的功能鍵,開啟選單

2.點選"內容封鎖",點選"自訂",其他留白(什麼都不要勾選)

3.傳送 "Do not track"...==>點選"總是"

4.Cookie與網站資料...==>點選"關閉Firefox時清除Cookie及網站資料(其餘留白)

5.網址列==>點選 "開啟分頁"

6.權限 ==>點選 "封鎖彈出式視窗",後再點選"例外網站"在"網站網址"輸入:http://www.1949er.org再按"允許"。
這時你會看到網站框框出現:http://www.1949et.org 允許;按==> "儲存變更"

7.安全性 ==>點選 "封鎖危險及詐騙內容"(其餘留白)

8.憑證 ==>點選 "自動選擇一組憑證" (其餘留白)

這是我自己摸索出來的,有效!終於可在外獨成功貼文、貼歌、貼圖了。


如果還是有障礙,不能貼文,繼續以下步驟:

點電腦中央最上方有“!www.1949er.org網址”的框框,點“!”,再點“權限”,點“例外網站”查看有沒有出現外獨網址。若無,重新輸入www.1949er.org再按“儲存變更”即可了。

也就是右上方功能選單及中央上方有外獨網址的框框,兩邊都有權限設定,兩邊的“例外網站”都要輸入www.1949er.org才行。
 

Record ID: 1555456149R055   From: 台灣

本篇到此告一段落———版主

WE ARE 49ER TAIWANESE