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外獨會意見交流

 

黃智賢

發言人:Ykk, on Jun/17/2019    18:51:18 (IP code: X.X.165.191)
 黃偉哲的妹妹黃智賢,她說她去中國看到長江黃河會流淚  

Record ID: 1560768678   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Ykk, on Jun/17/2019    18:53:29 (IP code: X.X.165.191)
 我去中國看長江黃河就不會流淚,而且還水土不服 

Record ID: 1560768678R001   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Ykk, on Jun/17/2019    18:56:37 (IP code: X.X.165.191)
 我去一次中國就不會想去第二次
中國給我的感覺就是人跟人之間很冷漠
 

Record ID: 1560768678R002   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Ykk, on Jun/17/2019    18:59:13 (IP code: X.X.165.191)
 水土不服洩肚子三天
中國的餐廳的食物油亮亮
不知道是什麼食用油
 

Record ID: 1560768678R003   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:平心而論, on Jun/17/2019    19:02:11 (IP code: X.X.98.156)
 中國也不是一無是處,大城市規劃得非常好,居住在其中不會像台灣城市這麼讓人有壓迫感
台灣喜歡把房子蓋得很密,這樣就算了,連一點空間都不浪費,一定要把違建蓋好蓋滿才甘心
 

Record ID: 1560768678R004   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:平心而論, on Jun/17/2019    19:06:24 (IP code: X.X.98.156)
 最要命的就是台灣上至政府官員下至建商和老百姓,美學教育完全失敗,連最基本的美學素養也沒有
所以台灣城市是亞洲最醜最沒有氣質的,連印度城市都比台灣要有''特色"
 

Record ID: 1560768678R005   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Ykk, on Jun/17/2019    19:14:51 (IP code: X.X.165.191)
 現任台南市長黃偉哲我認為他是賴清德2.0,也是無為而治混吃混喝而已 

Record ID: 1560768678R006   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:平心而論, on Jun/17/2019    19:49:51 (IP code: X.X.98.156)
 >>>無為而治混吃混喝而已

這句怎麼好像是在諷刺某個人,無為而治不就是什麼都維持現狀的代名詞?
 

Record ID: 1560768678R007   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:台灣民眾, on Jun/17/2019    21:17:04 (IP code: X.X.245.70)
 是這樣子空氣汙染嚴重的時候.空氣中的一氧化氮濃度太高.就會刺激人的眼睛流淚.....

水土不服基本上是中國食物的新鮮度不夠.讓人鬧肚子疼....

也有可能是吃到中國三鹿奶粉還是什麼的!!!

尤其要注意中國曾空爆原子彈.這種輻射塵.中共不曾處理過..

加上最近的非洲豬瘟能讓豬死了都來不及處理.

這時去中國大陸很佛心.也可能很容易吃到腐敗的病死豬肉!!!!!
 

Record ID: 1560768678R008   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Howdy, on Jun/17/2019    21:30:23 (IP code: X.X.56.55)
 為何台灣的城市樣貌如此差?
同樣地狹人稠的日本,為何不像台灣這樣?
台灣的建築體係跟規劃,是日本時代打的基礎
為何現在相差很大?
聰明的人絕不會怪台灣人笨。
 

Record ID: 1560768678R009   From: 美國

回信 發言人:懷谷, on Jun/17/2019    22:52:34 (IP code: X.X.48.138)
 》中國也不是一無是處,大城市規劃得非常好

只要支那共產一來
你家收歸國有
拆了重建再要你買回使用權
要規劃得再怎麼好都不是問題
 

Record ID: 1560768678R010   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:大機車, on Jun/17/2019    22:55:53 (IP code: X.X.116.25)
 >>無為而治不就是什麼都維持現狀的代名詞?

錯矣,是無為也不治,碰到拉屎才趕緊挖廁所,不見屎,挖廁所也免...

所有事,全部都是被動等發生,再嚴正抗議...抗議完就沒了...

港府繼續不回應,詐騙犯繼續送中,照樣進不去國際組織,開會開一半台灣代表繼續被請出去,共軍照樣偶爾穿越中線...兆豐金案繼續保持絕對機密,所羅門最後斷交...還有其他兩國也跟著斷交...

做點事被踩就算了,甚麼事都不做,還照樣被阿共仔踩,這黑鍋背的冤...因為外交靠的是實力,不是敵人的善意,結論就是台灣沒實力...
 

Record ID: 1560768678R011   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:ace, on Jun/18/2019    09:02:55 (IP code: X.X.86.199)
 > 最要命的就是台灣上至政府官員下至建商和老百姓,美學教育完全失敗,連最基本的美學素養也沒有
所以台灣城市是亞洲最醜最沒有氣質的,連印度城市都比台灣要有''特色"

美意識的起源:愉快 醜的起源:苦痛
無別的情感可直接從自体發見。我等只可能分別彼的原因或結果。從此我可推論情感: 及結果生出同情
No passion of another discovers itself immediately to the mind. We are only sensible of its causes or effects. From these we infer the passion: And consequently these give rise to our sympathy.
美的感覺非常依存於此原理; 在任何物件有一在所有者中生產愉快的傾向之場合、此常被視為美的理想 在任何物件有一在所有者中生產苦痛的傾向之場合、是不愉快及醜的
Our sense of beauty depends very much on this principle; and where any object has a tendency to produce pleasure in its possessor, it is always regarded as beautiful; as every object, that has a tendency to produce pain, is disagreeable and deform'd.
~David Hume A TREATISE OF HUMAN NATURE 『人間本性論』

美貌非美德
美貌之二枚舌的基礎、是只有女性及幼童享有的無辜推定、因為美人通過一幼稚症的美學暗示彼的美德。L・T氏有名的格言、「驚異的、美貌等於善良的妄想是如此完全的。」美貌在美學上是雌性的、非雄性的、因為美男不暗示或授予彼的所有者與傾城佳人同樣美德的幻覺
The duplicity of beauty is predicated on a presumption of innocence that only women and children enjoy, for beauty connotes its virtue through an aesthetic of infantilism. As Leo Tolstoy rather famously said, “It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness.” Beauty is as such feminine rather than masculine in its aesthetic, for handsomeness neither connotes nor confers onto its possessor the same illusion of virtue that beauty does.
~illimitablemen.com WOMANLY DUPLICITY & ITS CONSTITUENT PARTS 『二心女及構成要素』

美之定義
美學之概念、是人對自身繼續存在之喜樂的果實。任何促使此生存更容易的、或在任何方法上與生命或活力關連的、對彼是美
Man's notion of beauty is the fruit of his delight in his own continued existence. Whatever makes this existence easy, or is associated, in any manner, with life or vigor, seems to him to be beautiful.
醜之定義
醜、本能的被理解為一退化的符號及症狀。最遠程度上、引起注意變質墮落的、是醜。各個消耗、疲勞、老年、或倦怠之徴候、各個束縛-類似腹痛或麻痺-及最高的、各個臭氣、色、或偽造的腐敗-雖然不過是不自然的象徵-呼喚一醜的思想
The ugly is instinctively understood to be a sign and symptom of degeneration. That which reminds one, in the remotest degree, of degeneracy seems ugly. Every indication of exhaustion, heaviness, age, or lassitude, every constraint—such as cramp or paralysis—and above all, every odor, color or counterfeit of decomposition—though it may be no more than a far-fetched symbol—calls forth the idea of ugliness.
倫理之變遷
數多被現代文明視為完全善惡之物、 一度被賦予種々迴異的價值-既古代希臘人視希望為一弱者之徴候、及慈悲一愚者之屬性、及猶太人、在彼王室時代、視遺恨非罪過、是美德-及一般而言、通過無數之例及議論、證明全部善惡之概念是可變的
many things held to be utterly and unquestionably good or bad by modern civilization were once given quite different values—that the ancient Greeks considered hope a sign of weakness, and mercy the attribute of a fool, and that the Jews, in their royal days, looked upon wrath, not as a sin, but as a virtue—and in general he had demonstrated, by countless instances and arguments, that all notions of good and evil were mutable
道德的無常
現在、因為全部倫理規則、已見的、單單是被若干固定人間團体為了彼快適及保護所定的、明白地、主人階級的道德、主要目的是保存權威及階級特權、一方、奴隸階級的道德、追求促使最易忍受的奴役、及賞揚及尊敬一切奴隸可望成為見目同等或優於主人的
Now, since all moral codes, as we have seen, are merely collections of the rules laid down by some definite group of human beings for their comfort and protection, it is evident that the morality of the master class has for its main object the preservation of the authority and kingship of that class, while the morality of the slave class seeks to make slavery as bearable as possible and to exalt and dignify those things in which the slave can hope to become the apparent equal or superior of his master.
非道德者的利己論
取代一、通過戒律及對地獄的恐怖、誘導他的神、此不道德家必然有他自身的本能及知性。取代履行一事因為被教會稱呼為美德或現在的倫理規範如此要求、彼必然履行、因為彼知此必然有益彼或彼的子孫。取代彼避離一特定行為、因為教會指控為罪及法律視為犯罪、彼必然避離、限於彼確信行動自体或結果、可能給予彼過勞或損傷
Instead of a god to guide him, with commandments and the fear of hell, this immoralist would have his own instincts and intelligence. Instead of doing a given thing because the church called it a virtue or the current moral code required it, he would do it because he knew that it would benefit him or his descendants after him. Instead of refraining from a given action because the church denounced it as a sin and the law as a crime, he would avoid it only if he were convinced that the action itself, or its consequences, might work him or his an injury.
成功的偽善者 例 馬英九 陳國星
此人、降入今日世界、必然表面的類似、多少、彼仲間市民中最敬虔及最有德的人、但明白地、彼的人生、比較他們、有更多真實及更少偽善及斜面及口實。彼服從土地法律、率直及單獨是因為彼恐怖招來刑罰、及無理由、彼不嘗試詐欺鄰人及彼自分自身相信彼視法律為神聖之物。彼不需要神教導彼善惡之別、不需要聖職者催促以上神的旨意。彼自然視人生的苦難及病氣為人生對立之回避不能必然的結果、及彼自然不努力解以上是一不平及不合理之神對彼自身或彼祖先之罪的憤怒。彼的頭腦、自然完全從罪及地獄之思考解放、結果、比較彼周圍大多數的人、彼是膨大的非常幸福
Such a man, were he set down in the world today, would bear an outward resemblance, perhaps, to the most pious and virtuous of his fellow-citizens, but it is apparent that his life would have more of truth in it and less of hypocrisy and cant and pretense than theirs. He would obey the laws of the land frankly and solely because he was afraid of incurring their penalties, and for no other reason, and he would not try to delude his neighbors and himself into believing that he saw anything sacred in them. He would have no need of a god to teach him the difference between right and wrong and no need of priests to remind him of this god's teachings. He would look upon the woes and ills of life as inevitable and necessary results of life's conflict, and he would make no effort to read into them the wrath of a peevish and irrational deity at his own or his ancestors' sins. His mind would be absolutely free of thoughts of sin and hell, and in consequence, he would be vastly happier than the majority of persons about him.
~H. L. Mencken PHILOSOPHY OF FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE 『尼采哲學』

美學的判斷
美學的及道德的判斷之間、美的及善的領域之間、的關係是接近的、但此之間的差別是重要的。此區別之1要因是一方審美感主要是肯定的、既對善的見解、道德的判斷、主要及基本的是否定的、或惡的見解。區別之別的要因是、在美的認識上、判斷必然是本質的及基於直接經驗的特性、及決不有意識的基於在目標的最終效用之概念、關於倫理價值的判斷、反之、在彼是肯定的場合、是常基於可能關連的利點之意識。
The relation between aesthetic and moral judgments, between the spheres of the beautiful and the good, is close, but the distinction between them is important. One factor of this distinction is that while aesthetic judgments are mainly positive, that is, perceptions of good, moral judgments are mainly and fundamentally negative, or perceptions of evil. Another factor of the distinction is that whereas, in the perception of beauty, our judgment is necessarily intrinsic and based on the character of the immediate experience, and never consciously on the idea of an eventual utility in the object, judgments about moral worth, on the contrary, are always based, when they are positive, upon the consciousness of benefits probably involved.
「道德」== 予防苦痛
真實的是、道德主要不關心快樂的達成、是、在深度及多權威的格言中、關心苦痛的予防。
The truth is that morality is not mainly concerned with the attainment of pleasure; it is rather concerned, in all its deeper and more authoritative maxims, with the prevention of suffering.
「奴隸」== 苦心回避苦痛的人
一常浪費精力於回避苦痛及死亡的人是奴隸、既彼的動作全部被外部課荷、及無殘存寬容或活力呼吸自由的享樂。
He is a slave when all his energy is spent in avoiding suffering and death, when all his action is imposed from without, and no breath or strength is left him for free enjoyment.
倫理的環境
但、在社會從環境初期的壓力起身、及可安全的耐主要的災害的瞬間、道德感明確的弛緩。
The moment, however, that society emerges from the early pressure of the environment and is tolerably secure against primary evils, morality grows lax.
「邪惡」== 損失及苦痛
用語「邪惡」通常是一慣習的形容語句; 一大火事可被稱呼為一邪惡、因為此通常包含損失及苦痛; 但、在不關心我等不共有的損失及苦痛之下、我等喜於火炎、及依然稱呼使我等歡喜的是一邪惡、我等只使用此單語之從來的名稱、非感動的價值之符號
The term "evil" is often a conventional epithet; a conflagration may be called an evil, because it usually involves loss and suffering; but if, without caring for a loss and suffering we do not share, we are delighted by the blaze, and still say that what pleases us is an evil, we are using this word as a conventional appellation, not as the mark of a felt value.
~George Santayana THE SENSE OF BEAUTY 『美意識』
 

Record ID: 1560768678R012   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:随便, on Jun/18/2019    17:36:11 (IP code: X.X.208.2)
 台湾人别抱怨了,我去台湾就没看到台湾有四百年前的任何建筑物。即使是三百年前的建筑物也是中国人帮台湾人建设的。

台湾人应该怪自己,要怪外来政权也只能怪外来政权来的太晚,中国人如果早一千年前就统治台湾,台湾人早就汉化了,也不会有现在的台独。
 

Record ID: 1560768678R013   From: 美國

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